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allen & heath zed r16 - and generally otb summing & mixing / integration of external fx
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
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1153
Posted : Apr 10, 2012 11:23:50
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i am quite interested in the allen and heath zed r16 mixer for some time now, but i do have doubts if it does what i am looking for.
i want an analogue desk that brings in some colour to mixes when summing stems with it. i want some analogue eq and input stages to push hard to get some nice saturation or distortion when recording through the mixer into my rme soundcard. i want multiple outputs to route softsynths through the mixer and external hardware (pedals, synth filters etc) and record that back in high quality.
the deck seems to have all what i want, and the multiple input and output scenarios do open endless possibilitie to integrate external hardware into your workflow which is also very very nice imo, BUT:
essentially do i get better quality of my audio given the fact its not a high end analogue mixer and could possibly degrade audio rather than making it better? would it be better of recording synth directly into the soundcard and then stay itb, or would it actually sound good (better) through the mixer when for example saturated in the input stage and pushed with its eq?
and mostly of concern how good are the a/d d/a converters which could probably be the weakest parts in the out and back in again chain?
i would go out through the zed and record back with my rme so i do not think the a/d conversion is a problem for me anyways, but how about the zeds outputs? and its analogue signal path, does it add colour or rather make the audio sound thinner and weaker going through all the parts in the zed??
i am after analogue depth and i do know it does get somewhat duller than pure itb which is fine, i want depth and space rather than uber definined sound which you can get nicely itb.
you see, SO many questions, and yes i have read the zillion pages gearslutz thread but still i do not know what to do;-)
the other option is buying a multiple in/out interface like a fireface and an vintage analogue desk but then which desk to buy as i do know next to nothing about those things except for that i could buy ssl or neve or studer desk blindly but i cannot afford that ;-)
any thoughts on the zed or even users out there that can contribute to this? any help appreciated 
  http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 10, 2012 11:41
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I was looking into this way of mixing as well and was looking into some expensive summing boxes.
The eye opener was a thread on Gearslutz where there was a blind test of the same track mixed interenally into Pro-Tools and a Dangerous Audio (I think..it was something expensive anyway) summing box.
I my self thought the mix that was in the box sounded wider and bigger, not more defined though. Anyway I mistaken the mix that was in the box for the mix that was from the summing mixer, as it was the one I preferred.
Having said that the summing box that was used did not actually have input pres, it was just a summing box.
I have had two analogue desks in my production days, a 2 channel Soundcraft Spirit Studio 8 Buss and a 32 channel Mackie 8 Buss. Both did not actually make things sound any "better". It was good to have the option of overdriving the input as it added some colour, but in terms of mixing, as soon as I was using a heafty amount of signal to all the channels (still tho I was within -8 to +2 on the master channel) it did not sound good at all. I much preferred the clean sound of "itb".
Now although I have not used the A&H Zed, I trust its going to be better sounding than the budget desks I have used. But your best bet is to try it out, although trying a mixer out is not an easy task, unless you know someone who owns one and can run some extensive tests to see what kind of colour it adds and if the summing is going to be any better than "itb".
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Apr 10, 2012 16:54
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cheers for the reply. as to summing boxes i found different threads where its really hard to distinguish between itb and otb even with the neve and ssl boxes from given examples.
there are really good mixes from the zed, but thats with all components of the zed used. i was thinking input gain driving and analog eq make the difference compared to just summing in this case.
+ so far my rme has one in and one output which means the zed would open up so many more routing possibilities (to buy more expensive toys to use with, lol).
but again, if recording through the mixer does not make it any "better" i could just get an extension for my rme card to have multiple outputs and route external stuff through that directly..
the fuck is, me thinks desks looks so sexy, instant "studio feeling" if you know what i mean.. so many knobs to tweak. mhh. 
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 10, 2012 16:59
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you would have to try to see if it suit you but i wouldn't except much from anyhting that sell new at this price.. i doubt they can use really high quality components for that number of chanels at this price.. but maybe it sound good who know
second hand for 3000/4000 dollars you can get great small sounding desk,desk that were costing maybe 20 000 dollars or more when new back in the days... with good pre/eq and coloration .
desk are a bargain or are overkill depending the use you make of it.. bargain cause it s maybe te cheapest way to get lot of chanels of quality preamp and eq..overkill if you just use 2 chanel of eq and run your sound into it for saturation/coloration. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 10, 2012 18:20
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summing all your chanel to your rme or vs a more highend natural/neutral sounding converter the difference will not be so minimal on the final tune..but noticeable imo , 10/15% better sounding ... with suming convertion really matter imo even if the benefit of some analog processing can be way superior to the convertion degradation... some summing mixer are on the clean side you may degrade more your sound than enhance it
the one i would be intrested in is the nicerizer but tbh that + the price for i/o don't worth it for me |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 11, 2012 13:55
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