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All Those Who Want To Make Trance
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chans
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
57
Posted : Sep 4, 2006 19:26
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imho, u should keep listening to as many tracks as u can and pay attention while listenin, jus try to imagine how the artist must have made it and incorporate parts of that track in your track...like for example u take the idea for the intro from 1 track then the lead, bassline from another etc...that can be done in the begining and as u get better, u'll get more creative and will be able to make your tracks more unique;) |
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assaf_zo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 01:26
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hi,
well i heard enough shit,
but still ppl if u find hard way to get ur goals train on others work its the best way to know the trance structure.
now i allways said... train, dont use same leads or sounds ... but structure
all those who were bitching about stealing some1 else work that wasnt my idea from the start !!!
so....
read before u type shit!!
try to understand what im talking about
dont write about stuff that doesnt exist
ya u got me mad... cause its pure dumbness to talk about something that doesnt exist
so next time colin read between the lines!!
and ppl train it wont come in a year for must of you cats... try to dig your own style and come original to the scene
much respet and have fun while u make music
(i come in) peace!
 HUGE BIG BLUE-MARVEL THAT WE LIVE ON |
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djzed
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
48
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 09:28
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I think people here are either missing assaf's point, or not taking it seriously enough.
I think that with almost anything you do in life, when ever you want to get good at something, you need to imitate THEN innovate. For sure if you want to make good music you need to be creative and have your own style, but to start off it's really important to actually to copy your favourite artist.
I'm not saying that people should be producing music that sounds the same as other artists, I'm just saying for people who are starting out and learning this stuff, a great way to learn is to try to immitate what you already like. Once you can make music like your favourite artists, you then have the basis to be able to innovate and actually produce your own creative music.
This is something that helped me alot when I started out making electronic music.
Cheers |
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assaf_zo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 09:35
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ok ok we got process and its the first cat to see what i say
true... own style is to importent
but know others work as well if ur a dj u can skip the whole process we argue about here.
thanx to djzed making my point stronger
and again i cant stop talkin bout it but colin and other dissin ppl, try to open ur mind not everybody got what u got (own style, exp, ans so on)
HUGE BIG BLUE-MARVEL THAT WE LIVE ON |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 10:20
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On 2006-09-05 09:28, djzed wrote:
I think people here are either missing assaf's point, or not taking it seriously enough.
I think that with almost anything you do in life, when ever you want to get good at something, you need to imitate THEN innovate. For sure if you want to make good music you need to be creative and have your own style, but to start off it's really important to actually to copy your favourite artist.
I'm not saying that people should be producing music that sounds the same as other artists, I'm just saying for people who are starting out and learning this stuff, a great way to learn is to try to immitate what you already like. Once you can make music like your favourite artists, you then have the basis to be able to innovate and actually produce your own creative music.
This is something that helped me alot when I started out making electronic music.
Cheers
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Absolutely, agree 100%. People get harrassed for imitation on this forum all the time, it's rather trite. People should do and MAKE whatever makes them happy.
However, one thing must remain clear--on the path to innovation, they should also do the world a favor, and not try and push the imitations on people.
"Wait until you innovate" should be the releaser's mantra.
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 11:54
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I think basing your tracks on other peolpes structures and using their tracks as templates is a cheap way for churning out masses of SHIT producers....
I am going to say something harsh here and if you dont dig it then thats fine...
If you cannot create your own track stucture without the use of a template ...you are not talented enough to be a real artist, anyone can sit and copy someone elses songs and structures...with psy its easy....(hence how the scene quality has become stagnate and generic) , so if you think you need to copy others tracks to work out structure i suggest you stay at home and play producer-producer, seriously, if you dont have the heart or time to sit and work out your own structure then i dont think you should take your up-and-coming production "career" too seriously. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 12:09
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..just a little misundestanding here, maybe...
i've been making highly original (experimental?) music for about 5 years, but the feedback I have gotten alot is 'its not danceable', 'needs more structure' and 'make it more pop' (i think for japanese this means more standard structure)
and lately, I have been analyzing song structure like the 8 bar short break/crash that allows dancers the breathing space, along with 16 and 32 bar divisions/timing introduction of new patterns, so i can make music that people can dance to
i think this is very important in dance music. yeah there is a structure, try and ignore it, and you will not be playing to a dance floor. some books i have read mention this too, ala 'chicken scratching' or counting the beats in a popular song and marking when and where breaks/changes occur
so, yeah, i think this is good advice. learn the structure, and it becomes the jungle gym in which you can play in. anyone who suggests otherwise is trying to guard a secret...
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 14:37
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assaf_zo - why do you take it so hard,
its a good advice that you give.
still i think you will learn more by just dancing to your own music and feel it...
thats what i meant with using your body when you create..
copying a structure will instantly take away lots of soul..
but i know you are talking about this in a educational matter, and for that i guess everything is valid. still i think you get alot more if you study composition and music theory, which i feel i lack when i create.
and to be honest commercial trance music is alot alike in structure and very predictable, its not art music 
its meant to get everybody up and dancing...
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PsyChotic Grey Creature
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 16:38
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hmmm interesting comments so far....
i dont even think about structure before i make a track, i'll just be experimenting with this lead or that bassline or those percussions, and eventually elements will just go together... these harmonies make the song!!
and then the elements will place themselves in the structure... afterwards you can listen to what uve put down and decide, i need to spice it up here or tone it down there.... needs a break... or new direction there
having said that tho, i have a musical background so i know my music theory and my tools very well |
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Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
557
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 17:54
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On 2006-09-03 21:57, Tomos wrote:
I think the 'learning your tools' process is far more important than learning to copy. I can't wait until I've got the skill to put piano, guitar, bongos and crazy synth leads into my tracks.. go nuts, be inventive, say what you want to say through your music!
Don't pigeon hole yourself to someone elses style!
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Well said!! 
Knowing your tools means more control of your artistry!! And then it's all a matter of expression!!!
"... b'om ..." |
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djzed
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
48
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 19:00
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On 2006-09-05 11:54, l337 wrote:
I think basing your tracks on other peolpes structures and using their tracks as templates is a cheap way for churning out masses of SHIT producers....
I am going to say something harsh here and if you dont dig it then thats fine...
If you cannot create your own track stucture without the use of a template ...you are not talented enough to be a real artist, anyone can sit and copy someone elses songs and structures...with psy its easy....(hence how the scene quality has become stagnate and generic) , so if you think you need to copy others tracks to work out structure i suggest you stay at home and play producer-producer, seriously, if you dont have the heart or time to sit and work out your own structure then i dont think you should take your up-and-coming production "career" too seriously.
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I always find it funny how people classify "structure" as something dramatically different from things like mixing, mastering,
writing nice sounding basslines, programming synths etc.
What I mean by that is this entire forum is about sharing tips and ideas about making trance. Take for example, the classic "compressor sidechaining a kik to a bass" tip. Now this is not in any way a rule, you dont HAVE to use this if you don't want to. BUT people do, because it sounds good! And people share ideas like these because they work and enable us to make our music better. People share ideas on
- Making melodies
- Making nice bass lines
- Creatign good percussion tracks
- so on...
Now for some reason, with this thing called "structure", people aren't allowed to share ideas on it. We can't use a certain structure that someone else uses purely for because it works, we have to always innovate and make up our own sructures. But why, I cannot understand.
There IS such thing as good structure and bad structure to a track. And there ARE things you can do to have a better structured track. Anyone who disagrees with me on this needs to go back to some music textbooks and learn how music works.
Structure is no different from anything else we talk about on this forum, we should be sharing ideas and working what types of structures work.
And to say something further - anyone who thinks that the innovation of structure alone is going to get you a creative, new souding track is sadly under an illusion. You need to be innovative with your basslines, melodies, even mixing and mastering.
BUT that does not mean we can't share ideas on these things, and suggest things that work. After all that's what we're all here for, if your not, you shouldn't be reading this fucking post.
Cheers brothers. |
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assaf_zo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 20:26
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To much drama 
HUGE BIG BLUE-MARVEL THAT WE LIVE ON |
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Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
557
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 21:41
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-05 19:00, djzed wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-09-05 11:54, l337 wrote:
I think basing your tracks on other peolpes structures and using their tracks as templates is a cheap way for churning out masses of SHIT producers....
I am going to say something harsh here and if you dont dig it then thats fine...
If you cannot create your own track stucture without the use of a template ...you are not talented enough to be a real artist, anyone can sit and copy someone elses songs and structures...with psy its easy....(hence how the scene quality has become stagnate and generic) , so if you think you need to copy others tracks to work out structure i suggest you stay at home and play producer-producer, seriously, if you dont have the heart or time to sit and work out your own structure then i dont think you should take your up-and-coming production "career" too seriously.
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I always find it funny how people classify "structure" as something dramatically different from things like mixing, mastering,
writing nice sounding basslines, programming synths etc.
What I mean by that is this entire forum is about sharing tips and ideas about making trance. Take for example, the classic "compressor sidechaining a kik to a bass" tip. Now this is not in any way a rule, you dont HAVE to use this if you don't want to. BUT people do, because it sounds good! And people share ideas like these because they work and enable us to make our music better. People share ideas on
- Making melodies
- Making nice bass lines
- Creatign good percussion tracks
- so on...
Now for some reason, with this thing called "structure", people aren't allowed to share ideas on it. We can't use a certain structure that someone else uses purely for because it works, we have to always innovate and make up our own sructures. But why, I cannot understand.
There IS such thing as good structure and bad structure to a track. And there ARE things you can do to have a better structured track. Anyone who disagrees with me on this needs to go back to some music textbooks and learn how music works.
Structure is no different from anything else we talk about on this forum, we should be sharing ideas and working what types of structures work.
And to say something further - anyone who thinks that the innovation of structure alone is going to get you a creative, new souding track is sadly under an illusion. You need to be innovative with your basslines, melodies, even mixing and mastering.
BUT that does not mean we can't share ideas on these things, and suggest things that work. After all that's what we're all here for, if your not, you shouldn't be reading this fucking post.
Cheers brothers.
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Well djzed bro ... u'll find this kinda attitude across most of the forum!!
I've tried but i guess my words were not ENGLISH enough - i don't know!
B'om Shankara!!
"... b'om ..." |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 23:26
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_structure_(popular_music)
"There IS such thing as good structure and bad structure to a track"
-which is totaly subjective
"And there ARE things you can do to have a better structured track."
- which also is totaly subjective
"Anyone who disagrees with me on this needs to go back to some music textbooks and learn how music works."
why would any of us need to do that, we got everything here on isratrance 
and btw how dose music work? if we solve that we might not need to discuss anything here 
Everything has a structure, the melody you make has a structure, why not use it as the structure for your track.. why not use the stars as a structure for your track.
use math
use other tracks
or use your imagination...
in the end its about what you want to do.
and what you want to express with your track or communicate or both... those are important factors, the language of music is interesting, and sometimes very simple, we just make it complicated.. if i want to express fear, a simple scream of fear would be enough, or a eerie atmosphere with leafs flying around and wind blewing in a hipitched way... and maybe to enhance it a bit i use some classic horror movie piano.. but if you live in the bush of africa you might not respond to this like a typical western society person would... but if i instead took a roaring lion and howl of hyena and the atmosphere of that place they could relate, for example... we need to know what scares whom.
anyway im drifting offtopic... structure of a track is how(well)its elements are executed in the timeline.... introducing a hook too early might make the track last shorter, introducing it too late might make a person lose interest... and so on, its so hard for a single creator to know this, it takes skill and to be objective, and just like when a writer writes a book he often let friends and colleagues have their input... so basicly thats what we can do, beside trust our selfs.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 23:42
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