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About melodies
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
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1214
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 21:29
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fuzzi's method of finding melodies is way to formulative imho ... nothing personal ... on a personal note .. i already have been learning music thoery since 10 yrs now ... so melodies come very very easily to me ... learning music theory does help u write classy music for sure .... dont talk about the guys who manage to write some tunes without knowing thoery .... as they are just aiming in the dark .. which wont help for long ... take some lessons and ull be better off in the long run ! |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 21:30
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I may have given the wrong impression - the only reason I use an arp is because I like the sound more than a normal chord.
As I'm sure you know, an arp will take one note and play it repeatedly, up or down an octave. You can change how quickly it plays the note and how much it transposes it.
If I hold down the A3 key on an arp set to 2 octaves, to play up and then repeat, 1/16th notes, I will hear 1/16th notes of A3 A4 A5 A3 A4 A5, over and over.
If I hold down three notes of a chord, it will do the same thing but with all three notes.
The only reason I do this is that I like the sounds of an arpeggiated chord moreso than a normal chord - especially because I can hear the individual notes more clearly. This helps me build chords. |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
Posts :
8649
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 21:51
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Good Topic.
I love you guys 
 Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 00:32
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Very good topic! inspirational!
Fuzzkitten i like your informative posts!
Wavelogix, i think fuzzkitten just gave an example, something to start people up, those who wants more insight in the musical language.
having formuals is good, you can always break the formulas, and like someone said, if you dont know the concept then you are stumbling in the dark when it comes to create certain things.
You can always get lucky once in a while, but steady practising and poolishing your skills to have a little bag of tools will make it easier to acquire other skills, easier to relate, sometimes we need some logic to be innovative.
its nice to be in control.
I would love to hear more about theory, in the same fashion as fuzzkitten wrote!
again great topic, just what i needed right now, too much technical stuff lately  |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 00:38
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We could have a topic about rhythm later, it feels kind of related, Fuzzkitten, care to give us an examination i would love to read it!
melody and rhythm! and how they interact
i think it could become interesting! |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 01:31
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theory can help a lot i guess, cause i have all forget since years without doing music... but most important are your hears .For doing good melodies just try to experiment note by note in a step sequencer and you can do some aprege manually too ,just some examples... |
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sonik_akb
Started Topics :
5
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221
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 03:06
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-15 17:25, fuzzikitten wrote:
One last note: knowing theory is completely unnecessary for writing good music.
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I respect you Fuzzikitten, but you couldn't be more wrong about that! It's extremely necessary to know something about musical theory in order to write good songs. You can have a great knowledge or not, but something you need. Or you know to write melodies for trance using arpeggios, inversion chords e progression etc., or you finnish to write only good techno tunes (with all respect to techno producers - Techno is groove, rhythm and only that) or those psytrance tunes with only effects. How could it be possible to write "Love Like a Blood" (Killing Joke 1985), "Out of the Blue/Tenshi" (Ferry Corsten), "Everybody Knows" (Leornard Cohen) etc. Think about the arrangement necessary to write the bass right, the lead right, the strings right etc., all sounding harmonic and perfect...
AK. |
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InnerAlchemy
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
54
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 13:21
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-16 00:38, New Era Scientist wrote:
We could have a topic about rhythm later, it feels kind of related, Fuzzkitten, care to give us an examination i would love to read it!
melody and rhythm! and how they interact
i think it could become interesting!
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Check this out:
http://www.stephenjay.com/hr.html
Interesting theory about harmonies and rhythms... |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 13:52
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-16 03:06, sonik_akb wrote:
I respect you Fuzzikitten, but you couldn't be more wrong about that! It's extremely necessary to know something about musical theory in order to write good songs.
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Well it is possible even if the knowledge isn't explicit. I know because I do it. The problem is that it takes ages to get anywhere. I literaly have to try and see how adding each note sounds. Trial and error... This is a very slow process and it is easy to loose track of notes and chords as I have to remember them visualy on the keyboard instead of just remembering simple chord names.
But don't forget that some of the best songs are very simple 3 chord progressions. Even I can tell that that is all that is being used at times  .
Still I have been telling myself for ages that I should learn some musical theory. This can only help.
UnderTow |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 15:52
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InnerAlchemy - very interesting, though some parts is over my head right now..
thanks for sharing!
sometimes i just dont know where to start to get the whole picture. there is always a piece of the puzzle that puzzles me.. |
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Astralasia
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
31
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 17:44
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I would say! just watch great sci-fi movies, play a good playstation game,isolate yourself from the outer world and the insperation will come.
Thats how i do!! Just a tip!! good luck!! |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 18:40
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-16 03:06, sonik_akb wrote:
...
It's extremely necessary to know something about musical theory in order to write good songs.
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Maybe this is where the disagreement over whether theory is necessary or not to write good music stems from...
"good music", as a term, is very subjective - what is good music to one person may not necessarily be good to another.
Now I love technically brilliant music that tests the limits of my mind with complex harmonic structure and development, but I also love simpler music as well. In fact I often get more emotional response from music that has a touch of naivete to it - there's something deeply moving about these 'flaws' (improper theory) that makes a piece of music seem more human to me.
To write technically brilliant music, one needs to study theory - plain and simple. But to pick up a didgeridoo or a djembe or a wooden flute and play something beautiful... one only needs patience and desire.
So when I say "theory is completely unnecessary to write good music" what I mean is that 'good' music - which to me means any music that is a reflection of the human spirit - does not *require* studying theory to write.
If... that makes any sense.
peace |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 19:09
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oh wow... wow wow...
For a year or so now I'm suspected that rhythm and harmony are, fundamentally, the same thing. If I play two notes I get a harmony, if I play two rhythms I get a polyrhythm. A rhythm is a pulse of energy, and so is a note - so why should they be different?
This is amazing!
As for a technical breakdown of groove and rhythm: I don't know how to talk about it, really. I learned by getting a djembe and drumming. For me, groove is 100% 'feel', so to express it in words is like dancing about architecture.
But I can blab about polyrhythm for a bit, though I don't know if it will make sense as I haven't thought it out in to words much.
A straight 4/4 beat has no groove, there's no flow to the energy (without an extra kick anywhere). But a groove, a rhythm, has 'pockets' where there are less beats and the energy drops. Basically a drummer will push some of the beats away from a pocket (and into the other parts of a groove) to create a pulse of energy. This is why grooves seem to breathe - they are.
Two grooves going together form a polyrhythm. Both grooves are happening, breathing, simultaneously. The mind registers the first, and also the second, but it will also register a resonance between the two grooves - the polyrhythm. Some grooves resonate very well and reinforce each others 'breathing', others cancel it out. This is much like consonance and dissonance. Two different grooves played at the same time that reinforce each other will generate a slower groove on top of each individual groove. So if you have two grooves that loop every few beats, when played together they will create the impression of a groove that lasts many many beats - especially if the grooves are in different time signatures.
This is part of why I like putting melodies in 3/4 time on top of my 4/4 kick - every 12 measures they sync up and create the illusion of a 'larger' groove on top.
I have been taught that the ideal polyrhythm is formed by three different rhythms, and that more than that and the mind simply cannot hear the additional polyrhythms.
hope someone finds this interesting - I'm done pretending to know what I'm talking about.
Have fun writing tunes! 
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TuK
TuK
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
228
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 19:54
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hey everyone,
i think this is a great thread,
about music theory i think like in almost all artistic feelds good music is built on two main things:
1. artistic instinct- something that we do not learn but very important for making a piece of music art
2. artistic knowledge: the knowledge of art theory is very importent, maybe you cant get good "feel" or "emotion" into a piece of music but you can build a good piece of music that sounds melodic with only knowledge and maybe a little instinct.
bringing the two together is what makes "just a good melody " great art or a piece that is emotional but doesnt bring it out because it lakes a little complicated chord to sit right a great piece of music
anyway i didnt get what fuzzikitten said about polyrhythm isnt two grooves witch combine together isnt just one good groove witch is splitted to two? why say polyrhythm, when its just one?
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 01:11
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Nice fuzzkitten, yeah interesting stuff indeed. when you think about it, if you drum a melody with your hands it has a constant pitch (if you hit at the same point all the time) so it has no pitch changes at all but you can easily tell which melody it is anyway... so the pulses is ground zero.
now if you play this monotonous melody on a instrument that contains harmonics(a smooth mixture of many different pitches) it will sound strange, it will sound more natural playing it with a non pitched sound.
its almost like the melody plays the harmonic part in your head/brain when you play its rhythm with a non pitched instrument.. not that this is of any scientific interest, but im thinking about the brain part, how we are able to relate without a actual instrument, our brain is the instrument. it sounds a bit naive but i found it to be interesting anyway, hehe.
im at a very low level of musical theory, but my interest is growing, and thats a good thing!
so anyway this post is just some kind rambling..
anyway to contribute with some actual information i will share this link that i just found.
this is a very handy and explainatory site for newbies and soundsmiths that has drifted away from the musical side of things in this era of technicalities
http://cnx.rice.edu/content/col10218/latest/
very educational!
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