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A thread that Hos nothing to do with music but all at the same time
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the daleks
The Daleks
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584
Posted : Jan 15, 2007 07:27
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the meat of this thread is, basically, I a debate on the existence of flavors of God.
whether its worded as fairies, aliens or 6th dimensional beings made of light, i think its just a metaphor for believing in a higher power, and trying to reinterpret it for these times
Bukboy, nothing really should be ridiculed. this is not positive at all, and is a form of self serving gratification. we can discuss things, in the search for the truth, and debate juxtoposing viewpoints, and this is really great, I see the thread is picking up a little bit in this direction now, but the if emotions come into play (which yes they will sometimes) we will loose our clarity, and end up sounding like politicians
some facts that weren' t mentioned yet.
1 entropy is downward flow of heat energy, but in regards to the first post, this does not take into account evolution, or organization at other levels. the first post does not say well, but the gist of it is genetic information is passed on from generation to generation, and we can go back pretty far. we havent gotten to human roots in 1 celled organisms, but the accepted belief is that all life originated from these. DNA has become a highly organized code through the process of evolution, and is moving toward higher levels of orgzanization which is an upward movement of this kind of 'energy'
2 the big bang is now a generally accepted pillar of modern astrophysics. evidence of this is sited in background waves that are pulsing through the universe, quasars, and movement of stellar bodies away from eachother
3 none of the rules of physics apply inside a black hole
4 the 4th dimension is time, pun intended
5 in quantum physics, the particle is neither here nor there, rather a smudge, across time and space. this still confounds physicists, as there is now solidity to the praticle, meaning all matter is more like a vibration
6 the universe originated at a single point, which was a singularity like black holes. what caused the change of state from the singularity, to the expansive state of the universe that we are now in, is anybodys guess
7 there are alot of unexplained occurences. some have been debunked, and some have been called miracles.
**end of facts
In regards to 7, this is the crux. we have to keep a vigilant eye against frauds, but at the same time, there has been events that are simply unexplainable i.e. a person falling from a 10+ story building unscathed, a kid who thought he was a WWII fighter pilot in a previous life, and was able to recall all of the facts to a startling detail, including members of his squadron, up to the very place he was shot down and died. this was on TV; people suddenly being cured of cancer through non-western approaches, and on and on. Some shit is just unexplainable. Some of this becomes pop culture theories, but I think alot of it is just forgotten, 1 because it wont make it into a textbooks (have to rely on passionate teachers for this kind of information), and 2 (the main reason) its just too freaky for (ordinary) people to deal
shamatrixx word. i love Terrance. he talked about a lot of stuff. not all of it can be regarded with a rational mind, but there are hidden nuggets of truth and perspective in alot of his words.
the last thing i would like to say before i go to lunch here is that ketamine is definetely some wierd shit. 6th dimension is hard to say, but i did feel at right angles to myself, and in a very wierd way. a good experiment (you cant OD on ketamine). do it in a safe environment (at home, or somewhere that does not require movement), and take enough to get K-holed (you'll know when this happens). it'll last for about 40 minutes to two hours, depending on method of delivery. medicine can not only offer us insite into the world and things around us, but into our own minds. indeed there may be a dimension inside the human mind.
in regards to substances, one must remember that it draws on different energies, so one must maintain a balance with the physical, in the same way that eating too much or all the time is not healthy
(i do not condone the use of illicit substances, or illegal behavior, however, the laws are different in different countries  )
  Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
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803
Posted : Jan 15, 2007 08:39
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And this is a rational answer. A very respecteable one at that.Demonstrating we should be open minded.
My approach has never been any different. No problems there.
So ur saying people support the 1st post because it is not known and should be encouraged?
To me it sounds badly written and tries to include a lot of unsupported and unlikely concepts.
As a theory it has no demonstrable components on its own. Y should I take this view as an alternate to the organised religion point of view which has monstrous difficulties getting itself accepted without resort to violence and dogma in the 1st place?
It makes no observable predictions so it is completely useless to anyone anyway. It cant improve your life in any way that isnt subjective. It is JUNK knowledge occupying your mind for no good reason. Y do u even entertain it?
U cant test it while being alive, so U have to resort to an afterlife concept anyway for it to have any use. Y should any1 accept something that builds on something that is already no more than speculation.
And in short, this guy who came up with this junk has no way of knowing whether its true, he's even asking for opinion on what other people think of it. So he cant pass it off as knowledge. Its just a wishful thinking exercise which is a complete waste of time. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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584
Posted : Jan 15, 2007 11:12
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thanks, i appreciate it.
i cant really speak for anyone else on is this, so i can't answer your first question
regarding your second question, is there a difference between organised religion? thats the point i have been trying to make. there is no difference whether you say you believe in God or leprechauns, because neither are scientifically provable, and both rely on faith. there is no reason for you to accept one or the other, in fact if you believe in God, but disbelieve in alternate theories, there is some degree of hypocracy involved.
this is also the root cause of separation in our world. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, not one is better than the other, in fact they all say pretty much the same thing, it is when people get hung up on the details, and/or manipulate for self-serving purposes that things get bad. i would call for all in the world to not denounce their own religions, but to embrace the teachings of all.
as for the original post, if you tie it to my recent post it is not all that outlandish
eg, life force can be substituted for 'DNA' which sounds more scientific, but nonetheless the same thing. our DNA is passed on to our children, so within us exists the lifeforce of our parents, and ancestors. some knowledge is taught, some is coded
what happens to consciousness, or mind (the soul) or course we can only speculate on, and i really hope that is stays this way. imagine: souls for sale!
that would really suck
alot of the other posts in this thread similarly are not just crazy speculation. this is the nature of the dialectic, we converse of ideas, and and through this conversation we can come to a greater understanding of things (hopefully). indeed, his post spurred this intense debate, so not bad at all, i think.
but in the end, yes, this will be a completely circular debate (its been done before ) alot of great philosphical debates also rely on such speculation (St Augustine, Descartes, Hume, Plato)
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jan 15, 2007 11:14
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Jan 15, 2007 11:30
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Yes just one detail.
I set out to establish that what he wrote is tripe. 
Im not exactly sure where everyone stands on this still. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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3709
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 02:46
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bukboy - yes i think we all noticed that you " set out to establish that what he wrote is tripe"
and thats were i think it went wrong, why do you need to prove D-Jade wrong? especially in the fashion you did, not like a man of science or a man of logic, more like a prick that wants to be right no matter what others say, when i hear friends argue about things that no one of them can back up with evidence, i tell them that its a stupid and pointless discussion, well maybe not in those words. but you get my point, i dont believe in things blindley, i want proof and evidence for things that i know(think) have a real answer. When it comes to things that dont have a answer, well i like those things cause i like to play with my imagination.
do you have any proof that he is wrong?
maybe you dont have any spiritual beliefs, but there are alot of people that have, and it dont have to be a negative thing, like many of you point out with religion, that its pure evil! (sort of) spirituality as i see it dont have to be like religion were you follow a sort of code.
religion is a great way to preserve knowledge. If you are seeking knowledge you wont trust anything blindley, so religion should not be a threat if there wasnt for people that take advantage of others that dont have the knowledge to search knowledge in a healthy way(whatever that might be, might be that you dont believe in things blindely without investigation)
if i believe in D-jade and his theory is not the point, i dont think that it is the point of this thread, even if D-jade wanted it like that. The point is that we all have certain beliefs , be it the beliefe in logic, in science, religion of any kind or whatever, it dont matter. this is something that makes us all unique. Some people say that they dont believe in anything, well i do believe that they believe in them selfs, and that is a belief.
when it comes to argumentation analysis in spiritual questions i dont how far we have come. As i said before how can you prove something that exist of no wrong or right?
if we study a argumentation very careful we might be able to come to somekind of conclution. But still it seems difficult for spiritual questions. (no wrong or right, some might not really grasp this, but im sure there can be things that dont exist of wrong and right)
http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Right-Questions-Critical-Thinking/dp/0137581866
this looks like a nice book, i have a book in my shelf that is about argumentation analysis from my time studying philosophy, i think im going to read it.
cheers!
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
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803
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 08:49
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Dude.
I dont need to prove that its wrong, anyone with critical mindset can see its wrong. I just want to expose all the weaknesses and show Y its wrong to think in this way.
When we can agree that his approach leaves a lot to be desired to be considered plausible I will rest my case.
This is not one of those things that is uncertain. And I feel no shame about pointing out that he came to marvelously unobjective conclusions based on unobjective methodology.
Which means there is no chance that his point is true except for blind luck. inifinity to 1 chance. (This is the proof u seek, it goes way beyond the shadow of a doubt burden of proof.)
I dont have a problem with other peoples beliefs provided u can back them up. This is just wishful thinking as is the 432 Hz thing. I have nothing against D-Jade personally.
What I am trying to accomplish is to raise the "consciousness" of the believing people in this forum to be aware of the tricks used to pass reasoning like this as sound.
Anyway I really really have tried to get people out of the mystical mindset.
Im just reading now that religion viewed from an evolutionary perspective has benefits.
Seems like the more vicious, arrogant, based on conquest a religion is , the more likely it is that the believing group will survive. So maybe nature has deemed that illogical, bald faced lies, that are apparent to anyone, have a survival benefit. Fascinating.
In any case shamantrixx "ignorance" comment is a very aggresive insult designed to disrepute all the people who oppose him and swallow up the less critical. I cant really allow someone like that to F'up peoples minds.
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 09:21
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wait a second - reread the first post, then let me state this again:
entropy is downward flow of heat energy, but in regards to the first post, this does not take into account evolution, or organization at other levels. the first post does not say well, but the gist of it is genetic information is passed on from generation to generation, and we can go back pretty far. we havent gotten to human roots in 1 celled organisms, but the accepted belief is that all life originated from these. DNA has become a highly organized code through the process of evolution, and is moving toward higher levels of orgzanization which is an upward movement of this kind of 'energy'
a life force or aura, electrochemical or otherwise may exist. we are not able to quantify this, but it is a fact that humans emit a mild electrical charge. we cannot determine if this radiates per se to other organisms via thought processes, but definitely reality and our environments is shaped by our actions.
religion came into the discussion later....
i would have to agree that it although you have "set out to establish that what he wrote is tripe" you have not followed it in a logical manner, but rather using a method ridicule vis a vis, wtf are you reading, wtf are you on, your crazy stupid, etc
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really dude, the majority of the population is like this already. i feel your crusade, but your like attacking a small group of people that have gravitated towards this music/artform to seek/encourage a higher spirituality (for the love of god I hope its not just about making killaaaargh tracks!)
its like telling hip-hop artists to quit talking about bling and bitches. speaking of that, which do you think is better, or f'cks up people's minds up more
i think your blowing it out of proportion
to echo comments on another thread i.e. how to make bassline to x artist & be creative comments, if you don't like the discussion why come into it??you have no social responsibility to protect people from "naughty ideas or speculation" , we are not children, dude.
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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803
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 10:01
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It isnt my social responsibility. But to some degree I dont want this attitude taking over the forum. i.e. that its ok make up crap, and then to insult the rational people on mystical grounds coz they say its crap. All I can see is an exodus of the cool people, and a void filled in with mystics.
Anyway his argument isnt worth much is you have to explain it substituting concepts to make it more believable.
So ur saying I blew it out of proportion? Cool. Its much nicer to err on the side of caution. Long as mystics are in the minority Im happy.
My apologies to everyone Ive insulted. (except the people who still believe this crap)
PLUR. Peace Love Unity & Revenge |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
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584
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 11:30
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you still didn't counter it with any logic, just prove it statements.
which i tried to do with some well-documented facts.
anyway, i really really highly recommend for you to read Stephen Hawkings 'A Bried History of Time'
sometimes truth is stranger than fiction
no apologies necessary, me friend, no insults taken here. but i do believe the basic theory, because of what i have seen and expienced up until now (but that is another story)
the sixth dimension is on an orange peel
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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.Telektonon.
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
17
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 13:48
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phew.. I'm exhausted !
Anyone for a 'Psycadelic Fairy Tea party' ?
All invited......
A large portion of the evening will consist of much sprouting off to one another about the wildest concepts we can come up with, and the one with the most boring ideas will receive the 'Wand of the Unknown'.*
*'Wand of the Unknown': a mystical wand said to be able to disprove the 'Unknown'*
'Unknown'*: not known; not within the range of one's knowledge, experience, or understanding; strange; unfamiliar.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 17:07
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bukboy wrote:
"I dont need to prove that its wrong, anyone with critical mindset can see its wrong. I just want to expose all the weaknesses and show Y its wrong to think in this way. "
im not following your reasoning, im not out to say that what you think is wrong.
you have not at all made any argumentation analysis, and put D-jade´s arguments against something..
let me see you make a such a analysis and then its up to the rest of the people to analyse your arguments. Cause solving a problem is not to just say that somebody is wrong, i think you need to tell them why.
so are you up to make such analysis? as you so badly want to tell us that what D-jade say is wrong, so i want very badly to see why in a logic fashion. if i could i would already have done so.
now expose the weakness!
you know i dont want to bitch with you just cause its fun, i think it would be great if you could show a method that can eliminate this kind of tendious discussions. and as is said, i would if i could..
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 19:13
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Wow. Things have been busy arround here.
There is too much to read and a quick scan tells me that alot of it is just a silly tug-o-war so I can't be bothered to respond.
What I do notice is that D-Jade never responded to my post with the questions. I think that the original post was too vague to allow proper discussion. IF we want to discuss the ideas in the original post, D-Jade needs to clarify alot of things. If not, there isn't much point in continuing.
UnderTow |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Jan 16, 2007 19:20
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This is nothing personal. Just trying to explain Y Im so opposed to the original post being taken under any consideration.
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Please tell me your thoughts and tell me i'm wrong. I'd love to hear it. I learned it all from psy and science.
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No Objections.
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Here is what I believe. In the beginning there was not just the “Big Bang” but in essence yes.
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1. I have no idea what this unclear statement means on a grammatic level. "But" is a conjunction in english(even though it indicates a contradiction), it means A and B. Now A is a theory, B is the statement "in essence yes". Both are different categories of statements. To AND them makes no sense.
This is a demonstration of poor english, logic and unclear thoughts. (I thought they spoke english in America)
2. It also attests a concept "big bang" which is in itself controversial. Attesting a theory is illogical. A massive leap of logic.
Taking in2 consideration is accepteable for the sake of argument.
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There were the makings of the proper molecules that combined and came together to create what we know as the single cell organism.
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3."There were the makings of the proper molecules" The only word I can actually understand here unambiguously is molecules.
Molecules did not exist until after the 1st supernovas which were a long time after the "big bang" if we take in2 consideration the "big bang" theory. So there is a massive unaccounted span of time in which anything could have happened that we no longer care about, we just sorta fast forward to the molecular era.
Y do we bother putting the two time periods together? Do they have anything to do with each other?
4.What exactly is a proper molecule? as opposed to an improper molecule. Does the writer have any knowledge of what a molecule is in the 1st place? Or is he counting on us to know for him? So that we can understand for him?
5.Why do I have to struggle to understand an 8 word subsentence that deals with 3 different concepts for brevity?
the makings of? who made them? are we assuming God?
There were? attesting again something that although is a refferent, is an unknown unspecific one? What for?
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These primordial life forms lived and died but they also had an innate energy within them that would not die after death.
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6. Im assuming that the proper molecules are being reffered to as primordial life forms. Which is odd coz I never heard of a molecule that was alive. or is a primordial life form not actually alive? even though its a sub category of "life form".
7. And these things had an attested "innate energy" which I have no friggin clue what that is. a soul maybe? too complex for a primordial life form. I really have no idea what this reffers to. their molecular bonding energy maybe?
8. But whatever it is, this thing that they have, how did they came to aquire it? Out of nowhere? I cant imagine how something came from nothing.
9. These molecules can die?!?!?
Maybe its just the primordial life forms that can die. How? Why? What for? And they leave the unspecific thing behind. which remains in an unspecific way. For no particular reason other than its own awesomeness?
10. These things die but dont die? wow. hold on thats contradictory. No Im going to fill in the blank here and just !assume! that its just the primordial life forms that die. I hate assuming stuff for the writer. I just dont know the concepts as well so its a leap at best.
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The energy created by their “life force” would go on to live even after they were deceased (even though they had no consciousness).
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11. So the innate energy is created by their life force but they already had innate energy. So does the innate energy create the life force? or the other way around? or are they the same thing?
12. they had no consciousness? Why? Why bother introducing this detail. It in no way connects the dots. Its just brute force fact that has no reason to exist in the story.
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This LF I believe radiated even after death into the new generations of their similar and dissimilar life forms to continue to create a more intricate being.
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13. Radiation is a property of life force? And it radiates in2 other generations? How, Why, When? so between this process of "radiation" in2 the next generation are the "life forms" lacking innate energy and life force? do they only aquire it after the "parent" dies?
at this point I give up because there is no hope, never mind guarantee which is what logicians usually work with, that this theory is based on sound foundations.
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There is an energy force within this planet of our Milky Way Galaxy that I’m sure many other planets of our kind may posses, but this energy is what creates intelligence. As different species and forms of life live and die they radiate electrical and chemical impulses that are not only perceived by every other living creature but they are absorbed at the same time. This perception of the consciousness is what keeps the species that are still living, progressing though their lives and enhancing themselves via the fallout energy and chemical release of the generations before them. This is how I believe myself to be who and what I am. Simply a product of the generations and energies that went before me.
What do you think as musicians and creators of our future?
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I tried, but I cant stomache this anymore, please dont make me look at this anymore. Its just a library of silly brute facts,that create more questions than ansers, and are tied to each other with bad grammar. |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jan 17, 2007 02:14
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On 2007-01-16 19:13, UnderTow wrote:
Wow. Things have been busy arround here.
There is too much to read and a quick scan tells me that alot of it is just a silly tug-o-war so I can't be bothered to respond. |
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Is this another way of saying that you're not able to defend your "advanced" statement from my "primitive" question?
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On 2007-01-16 19:13, UnderTow wrote:
What I do notice is that D-Jade never responded to my post with the questions.
UnderTow
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Maybe it's because you also avoid questions so nobody cares to answer you!?
You know... i don't mind when somebody makes a mistake or acts on a prejudice. We all do it from time to time. But when you just ignore questions... it's pathetic.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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