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A thread that Hos nothing to do with music but all at the same time
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D-Jade
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6
Posted : Dec 28, 2006 06:22
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Please tell me your thoughts and tell me i'm wrong. I'd love to hear it. I learned it all from psy and science.
Here is what I believe. In the beginning there was not just the “Big Bang” but in essence yes. There were the makings of the proper molecules that combined and came together to create what we know as the single cell organism. These primordial life forms lived and died but they also had an innate energy within them that would not die after death. The energy created by their “life force” would go on to live even after they were deceased (even though they had no consciousness). This LF I believe radiated even after death into the new generations of their similar and dissimilar life forms to continue to create a more intricate being. There is an energy force within this planet of our Milky Way Galaxy that I’m sure many other planets of our kind may posses, but this energy is what creates intelligence. As different species and forms of life live and die they radiate electrical and chemical impulses that are not only perceived by every other living creature but they are absorbed at the same time. This perception of the consciousness is what keeps the species that are still living, progressing though their lives and enhancing themselves via the fallout energy and chemical release of the generations before them. This is how I believe myself to be who and what I am. Simply a product of the generations and energies that went before me.
What do you think as musicians and creators of our future?
D-JADE
P.S. I know this ins't a forum for this sort of topic but I also know that you friends are of the utmost intelligence so I would simply like to hear your virtues. Thanks. |
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D-Jade
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6
Posted : Dec 28, 2006 06:26
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BTW no drugs were involved in this post. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 07:48
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wtf have u been reading?  |
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talolard
IsraTrance Full Member
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64
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282
Posted : Dec 28, 2006 13:28
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ur ideas negate the second law of thermodynamics which dictate a constant increase in entropy. therefore your beliefs are physcially imposible.
 Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.
natanofgaza@yahoo.com |
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shamantrixx
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549
Posted : Dec 28, 2006 16:51
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This idea is arround for a long time. Consciousness is not a physicall property of our body. Science can't see it, measure it or define what it is. So technicly speaking... consciousness does not depend on thermodynamics or any other law that we've invented. It's obvious that consciousness operates independently from our body and is capable to survive human death (near death experience etc.).
Vedas talk about this model in a similar way. Remember... 4000 years ago Vedas talk about the spherical Earth. We have burned many until we finaly "proved" that the earth is spherical... and that was like few hundread years ago. Many tribes in Africa also knew about the shape of the Earth long before we invent the inquisition that will later burn anyone with idea that the Earth is spherical.
A science is said to be useful if its development tends to accentuate the existing inequalities in the distribution of wealth, or more directly promotes the destruction of human life.
G. H. Hardy
Nearly all ancient cultures believe in spirit of ancestors, reincarnation or some other form of afterlife. So we can be scientificly ignorant and believe that (once again) Vedas and other ancient knowlegdes are not valid or we can start to notice the pattern of ignorance that spans trough our entire "scientific era". We believe we are advanced and scientific culture but the truth is far more bitter...
Men is a missing link between apes and human beeings. It's the only species on this planet that's killing the members of it's own species simply for pleasure. Animals kill for food... we kill for science, pleasure, beliefe and above all... out of ignorance.
btw: look for lectures from Michael Tsarian. He has a great understanding about the origins of life, consciousness and human history.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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803
Posted : Dec 28, 2006 17:33
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Well obviously the big green invisible turd in the sky exists coz 1. it has no evidence for it 2. I being the authority on mystical turds have uber knowledge over it, and that knowledge can only b transmitted tacitly without argument or evidence. (my authority stems from my being the seventh son of the seventh prick.)
Just joking, but oft the greatest truths are spoken in jest.
Dude if u cant back up ur statements with evidence then u shouldnt b listening to those voices in ur head just as no one else should.
That said consciousness can be observed. U can see that some1 is conscious. Its "mind" ur talking about.
"Mind" has occupied philosophers for literally thousands of years. (philosophers are people that are much more logical and intelligent than hippies on average) Doesnt mean theres any reason to think it continues in2 an afterlife.
On the whole we dont have enough evidence to differentiate your statements as true or as brutal mystical facts that might as well be fantasies.(which stupendously sensational statements without evidence more than likely are)
Dudes get a friggin life. Live in reality not make believe. Fairies dont exist and hippy urban legends definitely dont. |
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D-Jade
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 20:13
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I really appreaciate both Shamanatrix and bukboy's posts. To you Bukboy... I have a life and great one at that. Not looking for anything more than just an understanding of what i'm living, loving, and enjoying conciousness. Psy has brought me many things and upon one an understanding of what is real. But at the same point I question what I do not know. If you don't than you will forever exist as the ape that lives only to survive and not the one to live the best and most expressional life that you can.
That being said. I love this group. I have found more intellectual minds to conjure up and debate thoughts in this forum than any before. Thank you all (and yes, I'm a modern, technological, and musical hippy as are most of you).
PLUS
I would like to post a Divx that I have that is in two parts. One of which is 303 Megs and the other is 280. Does anyone know how I can share it? It is from Dale Pond a physicist that speaks deeply into not just my theories but the astrophysics and thermodynamics that we are speaking of.
Cheers to all and in the new year enhance not only your life but others through your beautiful musical notes. Cheers to all. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 21:09
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Welcome to the forum dude.
My apologies for sounding beligerent towards u. Just thinking aloud really.
Old japanese proverb "keep your eyes open and your mouth shut."
I should actually thank you and shamantrix for the amount of mirth, amusement and caprice uve been instrumental in making me feel.
Keep up the good work. |
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shamantrixx
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7
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 21:20
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@ bukboy: I really don't like arguments such as this one. D-Jade asked us to comment this topic... so I did. I don't state that this is The Only True, I say that it's possible and that science was often very wrong. Is there a life after death... we'll never know since those who die can't tell us. If there is an afterlife science has no means to discover it! That doesn't prove the there is no afterlife. Not having evidence "for" is not in it self the evidence "against".
I don't know why you get your kicks out of discrediting every idea that you don't like, understand or fear of. Making others look stupid is not going to make you look or feel smarter. But by doing so you provide more than enough evidence that any form of argument with you is futile.
Since we're connected by the trance music many make an assumption that people here don't know anything except trance. For instance somebody here could be a Jungian or Neitzcheist. Some could have years of experience with terms rational mind, abstract mind, consciousness, subconsciousness, unconsciousness, ego, self and shadow. So next time before you state that consciousness and mind are the same thing know that you will be held for fool. Have you read only one C. Jung book you would know the difference. But obviously you're not after the knowledge or essence... for you the essence is to be the one that will win the topic. So knock your self out... I don't discouss on that level.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 22:18
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Actually I like Jung very much. But its not psychologists, or moral philosophers u should b discussing.
U should b more interested in ontology and epistemology.
Seriously dude, Im not being an asshole. Just trying to wake U up from the pleidian kak and David Icke bull.
Lack of evidence is very good evidence against a theory if ur a pragmatist.
If u want people to believe something the 1st thing u should mention after the abstract, is the qualitative main reason for believeing the contents of the abstract. That will get u places in the real world. If ur content in living in a make believe world then your way will do just fine.
I strongly disagree with u, but that doesnt mean Im wrong or an asshole. |
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shamantrixx
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Posted : Dec 28, 2006 23:37
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On 2006-12-28 22:18, bukboy wrote:
If u want people to believe something...
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I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BELIEVE ME!!!
I express my point of view and let people think with their heads. I don't care will you or you will not believe ME, understand what I'M saying or what will you think of ME. It's not ME that's the topic... it's not ME that's important. That's the difference between you and me... I see no "you" and no "me". It's completly your problem. OK?
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Dharma Lab
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Posted : Dec 29, 2006 00:29
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I think we may have gotten a little off-topic here, so I urge the exchange of ideas to continue, and not take things so personally.
I find some of the ideas intriguing, as these topics have been discussed in length in Buddhist schools. The concept of 'emptiness' can relate the fact that there is no cause-less cause, or even single cause, but a vast network of causes that goes into each & every aggregate. Thru this framework, the entire universe is connected.
Not only do I agree that we kill out of ignorance, I would say that just about all the harm done in this world of humans is done out of ignorance.
I find the bridges between philosophy & science to be exciting, but neither one in and of itself will ever be complete, or able to explain it all. At best, they can explain portions. Many times theories have been proven, then disproven, and back again. We have to operate on the body of knowledge that we can obtain, until it is discredited.
The problem exists when we get into realms that cannot be measured, or observed directly. Old Schrodinger himself, & even Von Neuman's Catastrophe can prove as warnings of the limitations of measurements. The reductionist viewpoint of science is one of it's biggest downfalls, but as I stated, science will never be complete, as will morality, or philosophy. We generally just have to make our own decisions.
Personally, I feel that there is an entity of mind that does exist thru lifetimes. I would continue to say that it is not necessarily a continuum or collective of consciousness, but perhaps, a series of moments of consciousness, each giving birth to the next thru -out many lifetimes. Despite our feelings about objective, and perhaps altruistic truths, I feel it's much more important to discover our own truths, and what brings real meaning and value to our lives. I think the more you explore that, the more you relaize that it our intentions and actions to help or harm others that bring it to light.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
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46
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1142
Posted : Dec 29, 2006 01:22
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again, i agree with bukboy. Dharma Lab & talolard seem to have a point too.
i think 6th grade physics is enough to debunk most of this argumentation used in the first post, but can be only an argumentation fault by D-Jade
most of us here are trying to find the truth, not impose our ideas on others or seeks personal gratification other that participating in a healthy discussion and maybe finding other points of view.
i like the metaphor i once was taught that says that "you can radicaly change a beach just by moving a small rock in it."
chaos theorists and weather cientists (is it really a science? ) have similar metaphors like the butterfly effect that says that "the movement of the wings of a butterfly somewhere in china can change the weather in one of the EUA shores"
i think it's a beautifull thought that can be easilly understood. by the way, since we all love music, check Moonspell - Butterfly Effect (1999).its a portuguese band and the album cover and booklet comes with some explanations of the subject including a text by a mathematician from on a well know portuguese university.
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It's obvious that consciousness operates independently from our body and is capable to survive human death (near death experience etc.).
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unproven and not scientifical
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Many tribes in Africa also knew about the shape of the Earth long before we invent the inquisition that will later burn anyone with idea that the Earth is spherical.
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i didnt find any documents relating to this...
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A science is said to be useful if its development tends to accentuate the existing inequalities in the distribution of wealth, or more directly promotes the destruction of human life.
G. H. Hardy
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thats negative deconstructivism
so... medical science for instance... is bad?
there was some guy in history that invented some kind of explosive and said "It will be a great tool for miners and it will ease their work". he saw his invention being mostrly used in bombs and similar stuff.
real scientists build tools. tools can be used for evil or for good.
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Nearly all ancient cultures believe in spirit of ancestors, reincarnation or some other form of afterlife.
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most ACTUAL cultures believe too... i think only atheists dont.
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Dec 29, 2006 07:51
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On 2006-12-29 01:22, sy000321 wrote:
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It's obvious that consciousness operates independently from our body and is capable to survive human death (near death experience etc.).
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unproven and not scientifical
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Well you don't find things you're not looking for. So whan you don't even bother to look it may seem as it's unproven.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
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| Many tribes in Africa... also knew about the shape of the Earth long before we invent the inquisition that will later burn anyone with idea that the Earth is spherical.
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i didnt find any documents relating to this...
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Again... you have to search in order to find. Or you expect that every new information will be introduced on TV talk show?
Credo Mutva is a Zulu shaman that has an ancient (certified) more than 1000 years old metal artifakt that clearly represents spherical earth and entire history of Zulu tribe.
Another german scientist in 1970's had found some tribes in Africa with great understanding abouit space and specialy the Orion constelation. In fact science made some discoveries based upon these informations that have previously been overseen. Third planet in this constalation usualy can't be seen because of the shadow of other 2 planets.
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so... medical science for instance... is bad? |
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Do they sell drugs?
Do they call 95% of your DNA a "junk DNA"?
Why medical "science" refuses to investigate ayurveda and vedic medicine and could it be that it would reflect of drug sale income?
Why is the suicide rate highest among the psychiatrists? Should they not be able to help them selfs if they can?
With such a huge profit from drugs I believe that the game is to invent new problems to introduce and sell new solutions.
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Good scientists is the one who is aware of the responsibility. Like Albert Einstein when he refused to work on the nuclear bomb design. If you give a knife to an idiod he'll cut off his or your finger. Clever person will use the knife to prepare food and maniac will see it as a weapon.
So giving knife is an act that requires you to be responsible. You pay taxes, your country use them to buy weapons and pay the soldiers who than take orders from people that you pay to run the country and to represent you. But again... you feel like it has nothing to do with you. Well guess what... ignorance is not an excuse.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Dec 29, 2006 08:01
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Doods Doods Doods.
I have nothing against open mindedness or originality.
I have a lot against pointless psycho-babble. Discussing topics, that can in no way change anything because they have no physical cause-effect relationship to anything in the physical world, will not physically help any1.
In any case it is impossible to "KNOW" any stuff which has no evidence. Any1 who writes stuff that has no evidence for it CANNOT know anything about it. To know something u have to have a good reason to think its true.
As I have said I have nothing against open mindedness provided that somewhere along the line at least a friggin shred of evidence is provided that the concept might be true.
Eastern Philosophy is a lot of crap. IMFHO
U guys should all read "philosophy of science" by karl popper.
In any case the way science works is based on reproducibility of results. Anything that is reproducible can be scientifically studied. Anything that is not reproducible is not scientific becoz it cannot b studied and not becoz science looks down upon it.
There is some degree of political interference in progress of science and what science chooses to study but on the whole most of the time the reason u cant study something is becoz it is badly understood or we lack the tools to study it.
But conversation about the soul or whatever is a religious/spiritual question. Science cannot know anything about it becoz people dont have any way of knowing if its true.
So science is not the culprit, its the bible bashing hippies masquerading as teachers.
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