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a question regarding volume
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New hope
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13
Posted : Dec 9, 2007 17:46
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : Dec 9, 2007 18:35
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2007 19:27
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-7db aka "negative" 7 decibels RMS
What I mean is that you put your Volume fader at 0db full scale on the master channel, you place a limiter in the master chain, then you place a RMS meter after it. You then push the track into the limiter until your RMS meter is giving you an average of "-7db". If your track is not distorting then the mix is okay.
  ~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 10, 2007 00:42
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first thing , a good mix *today* is supose to take in acount its gonna be limited like motherfucker and make the eq "holes" in the sounds to avoid sound clash.. so deep notches can help to make that part , tho isnt realy needed if u not gonna compress the hell out of it
(no kick on bass ? side chain ?sound familiar ? this is almost 99% crap just since its going to limiter after and u allready know what gonna happen becuase of that , some peaple allready write with limiter on the master channel...)
regard sending to labels i suggest sqweeze it little bit should be best.. since limiter is small part of mastering and does make it all louder its good for demo perpuse and also just to give to friends and dj.. save your 24bit unlimited version in case they want to buy and send to proffesional mastering 
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 10, 2007 01:47
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On 2007-12-09 19:27, psylevation wrote:
-7db aka "negative" 7 decibels RMS
What I mean is that you put your Volume fader at 0db full scale on the master channel, you place a limiter in the master chain, then you place a RMS meter after it. You then push the track into the limiter until your RMS meter is giving you an average of "-7db". If your track is not distorting then the mix is okay.
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Imho -7 Db is way too much... Itīs been a while I donīt make comparison, but I only found this value at some Infected Mushrooms tracks... -9 was a value that was supposed to be more than loud(I never go higher than -9 for my matser, as I really donīt know exactly what Iīm doing).
Iīve read many reports about gain reduction, and -4/-5 DB of GR is good range for begginers, even knowing that itīs just a number. Try some limiter/maximzer, push the input/threshold and try reach maximum value of -4 Db for GR. Then check the RMS. I know that itīs all about ears, but when Iīve tried to push harder and reaching higher RMS, it always sounds too much compressed for me(althought ppl like loud compressed music).
So my tip: go for the gain reduction meter. Do not mind so much about RMS, as professional master engineers can do wonders about it. Push the GR to -4 or -5, and if the RMS is still too low, fix the mix.
LOADING... |
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MishaCore
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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60
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 02:15
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thanks a lot everyone.
elad since i know u are a veteran FL user you'll mind if i'll pm/mail you with some more specific questions mixwise within the fruity? will do my best not to be karzia...
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 02:51
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On 2007-12-10 02:15, MishaCore wrote:
thanks a lot everyone.
elad since i know u are a veteran FL user you'll mind if i'll pm/mail you with some more specific questions mixwise within the fruity? will do my best not to be karzia...
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no problem
also u can do it in public so more peaple learn .. either way u like.. 
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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MishaCore
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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60
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 03:04
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ok just had some thoughts about what might considered spam...will try the second method.
so first question, what did you mean by squeeze?
and another thing in fruity when i look at the peak meter in the mixer it shows RMS or gain reduction?? i got kinda confused between the two and i'm kinda ignorant regarding the physical explantion/terminology of these two values.
how can i monitor them in a best way? maybe some spectrum analyzer that you receommend? |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 03:36
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Quote:
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On 2007-12-10 01:47, SMS wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-12-09 19:27, psylevation wrote:
-7db aka "negative" 7 decibels RMS
What I mean is that you put your Volume fader at 0db full scale on the master channel, you place a limiter in the master chain, then you place a RMS meter after it. You then push the track into the limiter until your RMS meter is giving you an average of "-7db". If your track is not distorting then the mix is okay.
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Imho -7 Db is way too much... Itīs been a while I donīt make comparison, but I only found this value at some Infected Mushrooms tracks... -9 was a value that was supposed to be more than loud(I never go higher than -9 for my matser, as I really donīt know exactly what Iīm doing).
Iīve read many reports about gain reduction, and -4/-5 DB of GR is good range for begginers, even knowing that itīs just a number. Try some limiter/maximzer, push the input/threshold and try reach maximum value of -4 Db for GR. Then check the RMS. I know that itīs all about ears, but when Iīve tried to push harder and reaching higher RMS, it always sounds too much compressed for me(althought ppl like loud compressed music).
So my tip: go for the gain reduction meter. Do not mind so much about RMS, as professional master engineers can do wonders about it. Push the GR to -4 or -5, and if the RMS is still too low, fix the mix.
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+1
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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841
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 05:52
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You guys don't understand what I'm saying.
I'm not saying to leave your track at -7db RMS, I'm say to just test it at that level, if it sounds okay then remove the limiter and go about your business of mastering your track...thats all, it's just a test...not how loud your track should be.
I agree -7db RMS would be not near enough dynamics. I personally like it around -10db or so if it has to be pushed.
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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779
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 09:57
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yeah, for pretty damn hot, 10 is okay 
Typically, in most forms of recorded music we see 12-14dB of dynamic range (according to elemental audio, not me), although obviously, it depends on source and genre.
The reason I worry about using GR exclusively for seeing how far you are limiting is that a big ol peak could come along which trips it up to say 7dB GR, which sounds accpetable but only say 2dB GR is being applied to the rest of the track...
And more importantly, ultimately, its RMS, not GR which determines how loud we perceive the track to be. However you are gonna get that RMS increase (and limiting is only one way), thats what you've got to be thinking about. Its about this time in learning to mix, that the boundary between EQ and dynamic device started to get very blurred indeed for me. Changes in one fundamentally affecting other, for example, effectively reducing RMS of a signal with strong harmonics through very precise notching of EQ. Or EQ applications of Multi-Band compressors. It strikes me that there is a functional overlap going on here!
Anyhow back to 12-14dB
If you were recording classical music for example, most people would get very cross at this little dynamic range.
I've seen members of my familly going completely postal over live radio broadcasts where they ride the limiter too hard for safety and gain reasons.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 10, 2007 15:44
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psylevation using 7db of reduction to see if the mix distort is not really right, cause the limiter and the settings you use are a big factor to distortion.
insteed using a mastering chain while mixing ll give you better mix but you really have to know the best tools you have andd for what job.
mastering help a lot to undestand how to get good mix imo.(to get the dynamic like you want and not too much distorted ) |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 16:08
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On 2007-12-10 03:04, MishaCore wrote:
ok just had some thoughts about what might considered spam...will try the second method.
so first question, what did you mean by squeeze?
and another thing in fruity when i look at the peak meter in the mixer it shows RMS or gain reduction?? i got kinda confused between the two and i'm kinda ignorant regarding the physical explantion/terminology of these two values.
how can i monitor them in a best way? maybe some spectrum analyzer that you receommend?
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by sqweeze i meen limit , something like L2 or similar.. the settings i would use is about -3 treshold for demo's
lets make some order with the terms
peak volume - this what your meter usualy show you (also in FL) , and its the peak volume (up to 0db in final mix for all instruments together)
rms volume - loudness , achieved usualy by compression , the harder u go the louder it sounds , but it has catch: u loose some of the dynamic if doing that too much (gain reduction , it has to reduce from the peaks to push the rms up)... right settings (after limiting) will usualy be between -11 to -9 depend on content and mix and equipment/plugin quality
to check rms power u can use the paz analizer and set it to rms instead peak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
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Posted : Dec 10, 2007 21:33
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On 2007-12-10 15:44, PoM wrote:
psylevation using 7db of reduction to see if the mix distort is not really right, cause the limiter and the settings you use are a big factor to distortion.
insteed using a mastering chain while mixing ll give you better mix but you really have to know the best tools you have andd for what job.
mastering help a lot to undestand how to get good mix imo.(to get the dynamic like you want and not too much distorted )
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Once again I said -7db RMS, how many times do I have to say it 
Yes that would depend on your limiter settings , I said -7db RMS not 7db of gain reduction
Just so I don't have to say it again... Not for you final volume level JUST AS A TEST!
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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779
Posted : Dec 10, 2007 21:49
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even as a test I don't like it.
You could possibly start taking stuff out that makes the track 'better', just so as to fulfill a criteria which is never going to actually be used.
In terms of limiting, what you are describing is a very good way to make you think you have too much bass, when actually its just right. (Bearing in mind that over the course of the mix, the ears can quite easily loose all sense of perspective)
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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