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A global resource-based economy...
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 20:31
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On 2010-04-16 19:29, consciousness wrote:
You are oversimplifying the point.
We are very well aware of the fact that we live on a finite planet with finite resources.
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I'm not sure what you mean and how you come to the idea that price will no longer matter. Double auction markets are the best way humans have figured out so far as to how to allocate scarce resources.
You really should consider a different name for your movement too. "global resource-based economy" is exactly what the global market economy is.
Zeitgeist is a fun film to watch, especially with the fantastic soundtrack...but its pure fiction. Its seductive because it removes the terrifying reality that no one controls the world..there is no one actually steering the ship. It would be nice if we could all form a group, mutiny against the captain and take the ship in another direction.
That is just not reality though. The "ship" so to speak simply randomly drifts however the ocean currents happen to be going at the time.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 20:37
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On 2010-04-16 19:07, consciousness wrote:
Eventually, there would be no more crime.
We wont outgrow the need for laws in the near future, but it is the goal.
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This is a very delusional view of human nature.
Laws keep our psychopathic nature in check and collectively lead to longer and safer
lives for society as a whole along with the individual.
Without law we would quickly form tribes based off friendship and blood lines to rape and pillage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:02
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What we need is not a different economic system, but ..
1.- Fragment existing countries in to smaller units.
2.- Freedom to choose where to live.
3.- With the two previous conditions what will arise is an archipielago of systems, everybody will live in the system they like, communist or capitalist or a raver utopia.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:14
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I'm curious... does anyone here have a degree in economics or some kind of equivalent education relevant to the subject matter?
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:24
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On 2010-04-16 21:14, Basilisk wrote:
I'm curious... does anyone here have a degree in economics or some kind of equivalent education relevant to the subject matter?
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I dropped out of computer science but work on an FX options trading desk at a major financial institution. Just building my
bankroll until I can quit and trade my own algorithmic trading systems in the futures markets with my own cash.
An undergrad degree in Econ is properly named a "BS".....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:38
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On 2010-04-16 21:14, Basilisk wrote:
I'm curious... does anyone here have a degree in economics or some kind of equivalent education relevant to the subject matter?
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Does any place offer a degree in delusion? http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:52
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On 2010-04-16 21:02, Login wrote:
What we need is not a different economic system, but ..
1.- Fragment existing countries in to smaller units.
2.- Freedom to choose where to live.
3.- With the two previous conditions what will arise is an archipielago of systems, everybody will live in the system they like, communist or capitalist or a raver utopia.
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1. will never happen just because everyone has a degree of patriotism/nationalism in themselves at the mean...otherwise we would not still hold the Olympics.
Of course spawning from the hippy nonsense, there is a heuristic in the psy community that global capitalism is "evil"...
Even though every year it breaks down #2 and strengthens what is going on in #3...
There is not much stopping me from moving to China or Denmark right now...other than that I actually love my life where I am in the good ol "evil" USA...
Its ironic to me that people rage against global capitalism even though it is making you more free to do whatever the fuck you want to do in life. It doesn't help though viewing things from the eyes of the ideal psytrance festival "trustafarian" that you probly are not. My struggle in life is a blessing, otherwise its like watching a movie someone told you the twist at the end is before you watch it..why bother.
Anyone reading this is more "free" than anyone else ever in human history..Freedom is scary though, so its easier to hide from this fact by "punting" the control of your life to something else..
The monsters in the closet of the film zeitgeist only exist if its easier for you than actually grabbing the wheel and steering the ship yourself. Its something to fill your time with..and global capitalism has produced so much free time for most people they simply don't know what to do with themselves.
Have at it..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 16, 2010 21:55
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8647
Posted : Apr 17, 2010 08:43
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On 2010-04-16 21:38, Ascension wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-04-16 21:14, Basilisk wrote:
I'm curious... does anyone here have a degree in economics or some kind of equivalent education relevant to the subject matter?
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Does any place offer a degree in delusion?
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It's not a place but a person and his job is a drug dealer.
Allow me to quote Hunter S. Thompson here:
All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy peace and understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 17, 2010 10:27
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[quote]
On 2010-04-16 20:31, braininavat wrote:
Quote:
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I'm not sure what you mean and how you come to the idea that price will no longer matter. Double auction markets are the best way humans have figured out so far as to how to allocate scarce resources.
You really should consider a different name for your movement too. "global resource-based economy" is exactly what the global market economy is.
Zeitgeist is a fun film to watch, especially with the fantastic soundtrack...but its pure fiction. Its seductive because it removes the terrifying reality that no one controls the world..there is no one actually steering the ship. It would be nice if we could all form a group, mutiny against the captain and take the ship in another direction.
That is just not reality though. The "ship" so to speak simply randomly drifts however the ocean currents happen to be going at the time.
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The global market economy is actually more close to the exact OPPOSITE of a resource based economy, because it enhances and produces scarcity in search of profits - misconstruing it as such is a blatant misunderstanding of what that term means - in a capitalistic society money/profit is the end-all goal, so ANY model that gives you bigger profits is a great model - even if that model means shitting on people and destroying natural resources.
You obviously haven't been keeping up with the zeitgeist movement over the years past the first (flawed) version of the first film - the stuff at the end of the first film is conspiracy nonsense, and I would argue that purpose of the first film is not to give all the answers but to collectively shock the system of the viewer so that they might seek out more information, which you have unfortunately neglected to do. If you have read later works by Peter you will see that he is of the opinion (and so am I) that there is no top echelon of evil monopoly-guys actively leading the world around by the balls - its just a natural progression of the system that we have built for ourselves and it will continue to stay that way until we fundamentally CHANGE our system.
Capitalism and materialism PRODUCE the negative aspects of our society by training our entire populace on a mass scale, and this reinforces negative aspects of us as a whole. I find it sickening that so many people truly believe that without government and strict laws people would instantly start raping and pillaging everything in sight because 'that is our base instinct' - fucking travesty, our base principles are so much more beautiful and powerful than that.
The reason (or at least a good portion) for strife and conflict throughout human history has been lack of and acquisition of resources and an abundance of fundamental religious bullshit combined with fanatical nationalism- there simply isn't enough food or whatever to go around, compounded with my god hates your god and my country is better than your country.
Remove the resource problem (through enhanced technological progress) and remove the religious/nationalistic bullshit and we would have a radically different world.
Of course, those are gigantic leaps and it is not something that we can hope to see in our lifetime, or the next 10. HOWEVER that doesn't mean that we can't start somewhere - if everyone just keeps on keeping on in the current fashion we're all collectively super fucked.
I am in no way shape or form eloquent enough to adequately express all the reasons that a resource based economy is the best way to go, or why the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement are fucking awesome - but thankfully they have websites which detail it very nicely. an excerpt:
From "Mechanism Two - The Abundance of Scarcity"
In Monetary Economics, the notion of "Supply and Demand" is a well-known construct, simply denoting that 'the more there is of something, the less it is worth in respect to itself". For example, drinking water was historically a very abundant resource, which didn't typically require payment for its consumption in a commercial sense. However, as pollution of the water table and city water systems have developed, filtered drinking water is now being commercially sold, often a higher rate than oil per gallon. In other words, it is profitable for resources to be scarce. If a company can convince the public that their product is 'rare', the more they can charge for that product. This provides a strong motivation to keep their items scarce. On yet another level, it should be pointed out that the central banks of nearly all countries also CREATE SCARCITY within the money supply itself in order to keep pressure on the market system. Bernard Lietaer, designer of the EU currency system points out:
"Greed and Competition are NOT the result of immutable human temperament...greed and fear of scarcity are in fact being continously created and amplified as a direct result of the kind of money we are using...We can produce more than enough food to feed everybody..but there is clearly not enough money to pay for all of it. The scarcity is in our national currencies. In fact, the job of the central banks is to create and maintain that currency scarcity. THe direct consequence is that we have to fight with each other in order to survive."
The ramifications of this abundance of scarcity are nothing but detrimental.
please, do yourself a favor and read this document, it will open your eyes with knowledge as to how fucked up the current state of things is, and what the next steps for humanity needs to be lest we all kill ourselves either with in-fighting or depleting the natural resources of our planet in the pursuit of money and greed.
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf
Global Capitalism *IS* pure unmitigated fucking evil, and those 'freedoms' that you describe are the true fantasy. I would be hard-pressed to describe any system that brain washes our populace into worshiping material excess and systematically destroying the planet's resources while simultaneously enhancing our worst tendencies as anything else.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Apr 17, 2010 11:34
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We definitely need a cowbell based economy. That's the solution.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 17, 2010 11:42
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Certainly - as long as the cowbells can be atomically deconstructed by nanobots and then transformed effortlessly into whatever we would wish at the time. More cowbell indeed.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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pr0fane
Moderator
Started Topics :
418
Posts :
3816
Posted : Apr 17, 2010 12:12
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Ok, this started out as slightly trance-related, but it has developed into a strictly political discussion. As stated in the guidelines political discussions aren't allowed, so I'll ask you to find another place for this discussion.
Locked.
DJ pr0fane (Iboga Records) | Multiphase
www.sunrisesupplies.com | www.iboga.dk | www.soundcloud.com/pr0fane |
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