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a fast question about incresing bpm
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
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974
Posted : Sep 14, 2007 20:45
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many compilations or albums contain the bpm right next to the trackname...
Q. what if a track begins at 142, slowly increases and ends at 145 ? what must be written there ?
bonus Q: i'm sure many of you, have some projects/track at a not integer number of bpm.. let's say 144.5. what then ?
  extreme |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 14, 2007 21:16
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I find BPM lists useless. Better to learn how to mix which you will learn quicker if you don't use a BPM list. Ergo, BPM lists are bad.
UnderTow |
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knocz
Moderator
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Posted : Sep 14, 2007 21:42
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Well, its usefull if beside the bpm were the root key of the song.... You most likely won't be playing the track at its original tempo, so when you shift the bpm, the root key also changes... Thats if you pay attention to that... If you don't, then you should!
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Chambao
IsraTrance Junior Member
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138
Posted : Sep 15, 2007 03:57
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i dont agree.
i think bpm counts ARE important.
because even if you dont play a song in its original tempo, if you play a 150 BPM track at 130, it wont sound so good.
if you have 144.5 bpm, it will be written next to your song, whats the problem?
but it will be VERY hard to find a track which is 144.5 or 137.6 and such, its very hard.
use a BPM analyzer.
and i dont think songs have to match root keys.
i mixed tracks of different root keys and it sounds good.
overall that was not your question, so answers:
A: it will be written the tempo in which the track starts.
Bonus A: im quite sure there are not so many artists here with the bpm of 144.5, but if there is, then it'll just be written on their
release: Bla Bla - Cosmic Bla. 144.5 BPM
Love is Life
- www.myspace.com/pinkadelica (Myspace)
- marcio_zimerman9@hotmail.com (Email and MSN contact) |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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3315
Posted : Sep 15, 2007 09:59
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I side with undertow on this one. One should know how to mix without using bpm , I fdon't use bpm lists and sometimes have to make fine adjustments to run 2 trax simulaneously for an extended period of time. I have found that even on the pioneer 1000... you will be a better mixer when learning how to mix without bpm lists...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : Sep 15, 2007 14:35
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Quote:
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On 2007-09-15 03:57, Chambao wrote:
i dont agree.
i think bpm counts ARE important.
because even if you dont play a song in its original tempo, if you play a 150 BPM track at 130, it wont sound so good.
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Oh come on! That falls under knowing your music collection. If you mix 130 BPM tracks into a set going at around 150 BPM, you have much bigger issues than BPM lists can solve and you shouldn't be behind the decks in the first place.
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if you have 144.5 bpm, it will be written next to your song, whats the problem?
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Like I said, you will learn to judge the speed and energy of tracks much faster if you never use a BPM list.
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and i dont think songs have to match root keys.
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Agreed but it should be musical. If you mix for a while, you get a feel for this. I tend to just know what will work with whatever I'm playing at any particular time. Sometimes you load a new track in the decks and start mixing on the cans and find out it clashes but it's rare. That is when learning to mix without training wheels comes in useful: You will be much quicker at selecting another track and mixing it in before the previous track ends.
UnderTow
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
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Posted : Sep 15, 2007 16:13
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Quote:
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On 2007-09-15 03:57, Chambao wrote:
and i dont think songs have to match root keys.
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I never said the root key has to match... But you have to have it in consideration.
The root keys can be totally diferent, but you can harmonicaly set them up...
Personaly, if the root key differs by a tone or a half tone, you'l see it won't fit in so good, so I won't use them. But if the keys are chosen right(if they keys are consonant), you can create your own bass melody for the mix by fusing both bass (Not playing them both at the same time, but finding a way to alternatly play them so the mix is even more soft). I think you should have all this in consideration. I do.
If you mix dark trance, then try mixing dissonant keys (really short intervals) to create a sort of anti-melody (dark loves those things)..
You really don't need any list (BPM or Key's), but they sure help if you choose the next track on stage.
Try mixing, having keys in attention.. You'll see you mix comes together a lot faster and better
0.02$
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 04:01
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exuse me knocz
if i have track on 144 bpm on Aflat
and i pitch it up to 146 , what scale/key is it now ???
offcourse my ear is the judge for the mix
but if u mention it so maybe u know the answer... must be math involve but does it work ? lets make it even better
mix
Amajor 144 bpm
Gminor 147 bpm
can u actualy find better mix then simple 146 or 145 (wich is just bpm) ? like key+bpm ?
and can u find it without computer and internet around when u have actualy one minute or less to make the mix ? www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
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Posted : Sep 16, 2007 04:52
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you wont change the scale by transposing the whole track... And if your player has pitch and key function, you can alter the speed and keep the original key.
There is a mathematical way of finding out how bpm changes can alter the key and to calculate that key.. But I usually trust my ears and like to play around a more pentatonic or blues scale. Easy and sounds good. To catch the key of the track I use my guitar.. If you want to know the formula, search this forum. It's been answered
When I say notice the root key, I don't refer to any scale. f you put the Gminor to 144bpm, I'd say (with the help of my guitar) its a Gflat Minor. And depending on the track and your dj abilities, you can make the track fit or not. Some tracks cant be mixed, or they don't sound as good. To mix those keys, I'd be playing one track already, then load the next one to the free deck, seek forward to find a beat, loop it, sync them both and mix when desired. If they sound good, I'd do a more goa stile mix. If not, a regular hammer-on direct mix. Or choose another file.
If you are on stage and have one minute or less time to make a mix, then you should know the song thats playing and the song you are going to play. The mix shouldn't ever be a surprise for you, neither should you play a song you've never heard before.
But I'm not a professional, in the world of music there are no rules, this is just my opinion and how it works for me.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 07:08
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i can see only Chambao felt the question of the topic...
i mean.. most of what you said is right, but.. i'm not a dj, and i never had to figure out a traxx bpm for any serious reason
thanks though for the answers..
it was a simpliest 2-part question
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On 2007-09-15 03:57, Chambao wrote:
i dont agree.
i think bpm counts ARE important.
because even if you dont play a song in its original tempo, if you play a 150 BPM track at 130, it wont sound so good.
if you have 144.5 bpm, it will be written next to your song, whats the problem?
but it will be VERY hard to find a track which is 144.5 or 137.6 and such, its very hard.
use a BPM analyzer.
and i dont think songs have to match root keys.
i mixed tracks of different root keys and it sounds good.
overall that was not your question, so answers:
A: it will be written the tempo in which the track starts.
Bonus A: im quite sure there are not so many artists here with the bpm of 144.5, but if there is, then it'll just be written on their
release: Bla Bla - Cosmic Bla. 144.5 BPM
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now Chambao, i really haven't seen a 144.5 (or similar) bpm info on any tracklist... hm.. also i remember, i accidently found one track that it's actual bpm were 146.7 (tested both manually and through several daw bpmwizards), though the tracklist said 147.. know what i'm talking about ?
extreme |
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Pinkadelic @ ciledakniP
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
125
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 07:31
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hello Piko Bianko.
well to answer your question again:
bpmwizards will judge the bpm by the WHOLE track, not just the begining of the song.
a cd will judge the bpm by the begining of the song. (and any sound can change your bpm count, slowass melodies, or maybe a sudden stop.
the bpm wizard will just the bpm by beats)
so if your bpmwizard says 143.6 its 144 BPM.
see the idea? 
-Soultech/Stampgevaar Records, Parampara Recs
-MSN: marcio_zimerman9@hotmail.com
-myspace: http://www.myspace.com/pinkadelica |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 09:29
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ok.
here's the difficult one: not a 'what if', but i've made a track (one year ago) that starts at 125 and within 2 minutes reaches 142, where it stays stable till the end. in this situation what happens ? i mean what must be written.. IF must. i suppose 142.
@ the bonus Q.
i really don't trust bpm-wizards in complex samples, they surely work more properly in simplier loops and stuff.. and i don't use them at all..
though whichever trakk i've accidentaly found having a decimal number of bpm, i've checked it strictly by hand. HOW ?
-making a typical kick/bass loop with the same bassline notes.. a really simple one.. and having it running in any DAW along with the 'test' track and trying to find the exact number that corresponds to the actual bpm during the whole track. eg. trying 144.2.. not! then 144.5.. not! 144.4.. that's it!
-of course there were one or two traxx it wasn't possible to get fit with the loop in any bpm, even trying with more exact bpm eg. 143.87 et.c. (i mean for the whole track... it might be fit for 30-40 seconds and then lost), and as a result you understand there's a progression, even the slightest of 1 bpm or even worse half beat per minute.
-interesting thing to try ? dig out Michael Jackson's Bad album, and you'll find many songs in there that are like @ 112.72 bpm or so. weird stuff.
-as for the bpm-wizards, ACID 4's wizard amazed me several times till now (it found about michael jackson's songs, and then i tried manually to see, and it was 100% accurate.. and it is accurate in many cases). now i use ACID 6 but i never tested its bpm-wizard nor i'll ever try to 
BUT.. really i came up with this topic clearly for the heck of it, not something that really bothered me.. but having thinking of it 2 days now, i came up with an extra question that only ppl like COLIN OOOD may be able to answer.. (the caps is for him to see his name and maybe help me figure this out)
so far, all this bpm mess i dealt with (not really mess, it's some traxx anyway) i had the tunes strictly in mp3 format.. either ripped out from a cd or downloaded via the internet (yes i do d/l sometimes)
ps. surely not from a vinyl record (record WAV -> mp3).. there will be definately some weird bpm's there..
SO THE NEW QUESTION IS:
is there a possibility that any of the following: compression / type of compression / encoding / high or low bitrates / codec.. may slow or fasten (even in the slightest) a trakk's bpm ?
--
if this is a simple question i should have already read about it, please do spank me.. or else just answer.
thank you. sorry if i got you tired reading this.
extreme |
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Pinkadelic @ ciledakniP
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
125
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 18:46
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Q: well i think it'll be written 142.
because this is a different story, this is not the bpm slightly changing, its a bigass change, and then it stays stable.
Bonus Q: what IS the Q here?
Super Duper New Q: Yup. but by a really small minimal amount, like 0.1 (as far as i know, Encoding can cause this)
-Soultech/Stampgevaar Records, Parampara Recs
-MSN: marcio_zimerman9@hotmail.com
-myspace: http://www.myspace.com/pinkadelica |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 19:11
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well knocz offcourse i was talking about cdj where u dont have pitch/tempo seperation. offcourse in program that do it for you its very simple.
so anyone have the mathematical formula at all?
another thing i know for sure most artist make the tracks on XXX.0 bpm and just some analog mastering equipment twist it little bit.. happened for sure to some friends , the track just got diffrent bpm on the cd then in the studio.... can explain 112.72 bpm on electronic music www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 16, 2007 22:31
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now Chambao, i really haven't seen a 144.5 (or similar) bpm info on any tracklist... hm.. also i remember, i accidently found one track that it's actual bpm were 146.7 (tested both manually and through several daw bpmwizards), though the tracklist said 147.. know what i'm talking about ?
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All the more reason to mix without bpm, excactly what I said. It happens often that a track is slightly less or more than an integer number of bpm, this is where finetuning comes in. So don't worry about the bpm, feel the right beat and you will be much smoother...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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