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3/4 tracks
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
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101
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3239
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 13:01
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Folks... why the hostility?
Kimotor look:
in trance we often mix up with 3/4 beats, since we presume that one BAR is between kicks, when actually one BAR is 4 kicks (4/4).
3/4 means 3 kicks in a bar. (Hallucinogen - Snakey Shaker)
6/8 means 6 half kicks in a bar. fits 6 times in a 3/4 signature (3 kicks per BAR).
8th Triplet (8t) means put 3 notes instead of 2 in the same signature of eights.
This will cause 3 eights to be put instead of 2 eights in the same time space.
  Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 13:08
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so, basically, we are looking for a 4/4 beat with 16'ths played as 12'ths or trioled 8'ths.. .,
so, instead of playing 4 16th notes you only play 3
anyway, i realy like swamp thing by Juno Reactor
greets.,
aka,. |
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Top-down
Inactive User
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7
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119
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 17:36
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I remember an old "Hux-Flux" track built in 6/8 ("Idiot" or "Triple nipple").
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Hodi
IsraTrance Full Member
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114
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Posted : Aug 24, 2004 23:27
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well... i don't know much english about music theory, but what i have to say about that
..
if someone knows those terms in english please translate it
in "3/4" u have 3 'revaim' in a 'teyva'
in "6/8" u have 6 'shminiyot' in a 'teyva'..
actually 6 shminiyot equals 3 revaim, so 2 revaim=1 shiminit..
u can find "Anything U Want" using the search... |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
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20
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356
Posted : Aug 25, 2004 02:30
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I by no means want to inflame this arguement, but the people who are saying that the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is the tempo is simply wrong. The difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is purely a "paper" difference. Neither 3/4 nor 6/8 are inherently faster or slower than each other as time sigs have NO RELATION on the tempo of a piece of music. If you have ever formally studied music you would know that the first two things on all piece of sheet music are the time sig and followed by the tempo of the music (in psy-speak, the bpm). The primary reasoning for use of 3/4 over 6/8 relates to how a piece of music will look on written on sheet music and thus easier for the musicians playing it to read (something which is a non-issue in psy). To add to this arguement there is the usual triplet confusion thing I see a lot of people confusing for 3/4, 6/8 etc when actually the tracks are in 4/4, but with triplet subdivisions between quarter notes. I went on about that at length in a different thread a while back and don't feel like writing about it again though....
New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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Pyite
IsraTrance Junior Member
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25
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238
Posted : Aug 25, 2004 03:13
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The only song I know of with any part in 3/4 is "Snakey Shaker" by Hallucinogen. Cool track.
~Pyite
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
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356
Posted : Aug 25, 2004 12:25
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S.D6 (Yakir .B.)
IsraTrance Full Member
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66
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575
Posted : Aug 26, 2004 16:42
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you are funny peoples!!!!!
in simple mathemathic you can do this:
6 3
--- : 2 = ---
8 4
hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
All the best.
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S.D6 (Yakir .B.)
IsraTrance Full Member
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66
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Posted : Aug 26, 2004 16:43
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6\8 : 2 = 3\4
it's the same!! |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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439
Posted : Aug 26, 2004 20:54
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S.D6
3/4 and 6/8 reffers to one bar
it means 3 ticks per one quaterbar at 3/4 or 6 ticks per one quaterbar at 6/8
i think now you understand better
|KBB|
|KBBBBB|
kick is the instrument that opens new
quaterbar.........so you can't fit kick here |KBB(K)BB| in 6/8 rythm
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p1ng
Started Topics :
2
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3
Posted : Aug 26, 2004 21:18
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its not only the maths, its the emphasis on the beat... in 4/4, the strongest emphasis is on the 1st beat, next is on the 3rd, and the 2nd and 4th are weak. If you notice, the 1st beat has the kick (which makes it the strongest) and the third usually has the hihats. in 3/4 the emphasis goes only to the 1st beat, so the 2nd and 3rd are 'normal' so i guess usually when ppl write trance songs it is in 3/4 ate somwewhat high tempos. You can write it in 6/8 or 12/16 if you want, but it would be 'incorrect'... |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
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20
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356
Posted : Aug 27, 2004 07:05
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Quote:
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On 2004-08-26 21:18, p1ng wrote:
its not only the maths, its the emphasis on the beat... in 4/4, the strongest emphasis is on the 1st beat, next is on the 3rd, and the 2nd and 4th are weak. If you notice, the 1st beat has the kick (which makes it the strongest) and the third usually has the hihats. in 3/4 the emphasis goes only to the 1st beat, so the 2nd and 3rd are 'normal' so i guess usually when ppl write trance songs it is in 3/4 ate somwewhat high tempos. You can write it in 6/8 or 12/16 if you want, but it would be 'incorrect'...
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Sorry but this is basically all incorrect. 4/4 time means 4 quarter notes per bar. In psy trance the kick always falls on the quarter notes so a bar is a cycle of four full kick thumps. The standard open high hat hit is on the "&" up beat between the quarter note. This is basic music theory 101 stuff we had to study on the first day of music theory in college (although actually this is stuff I remember learning in music class in grade school). 3/4 times means there are three quarter notes (i.e. three kick thumps) per bar. If you don't believe me you can look this up on any good music theory site or book, or better yet open up Cubase or whatever, set your bpm at 145 and open the standard notation edition and entire 1 kick on the first beat, your hihat on the 3rd and play you loop and you will see that you have a basic beat that is 4 times too slow.
Simply put... K=kick b=bass
[K K K K] is 4/4 time
[K K K] is 3/4
regardless of the notes in between
[Kbbb Kbbb Kbbb Kbbb] is 4/4 time
[Kbb Kbb Kbb Kbb} is ALSO 4/4 time (with triplet subdivision which I will go into in a minute)
The idea of the emphasis on the 1st and 3rd beat in 4/4 beating normal is also incorrect and in most 4/4 music the emphasis is on the 2nd and 4th beat (which is usually the beats on this you get your main snare hits on). the 1 and 3 beat emphasis (snare hits on 1 and 3) happens in music, but usually only in slower music (especially ballads) because it makes the music just "feel" slower. Its common in pop songs when they are shifting from a slow section to a more high energy chorus.
The standard hihat between the kicks falls on what we call the "upbeats". The kicks fall on the "downbeat" which is the "1,2,3,4" we count when counting the time sig. if we count this using 8th notes we count it
[1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &] repeat
or counting it with 16th notes
[1 e & ah 2 e & ah 3 e & ah 4 e & ah] repeat
these are the same, you are just subdividing your counting scale more. In either case the open hihat falls on the "&" between the downbeat/kick thumps. This is often called the "upbeat" and accenting the upbeat with an open hihat or what not causes the rhythm to "jump" more and feel more energetic (notice how a track always feels like it just picked up a bit when that upbeat hihat is introduced after an absense of it).
Anyways, probably the biggest misunderstanding I see among psy-trance musicians regards what exactly 3/4 time is. Often (no, actually almost always) what people call 3/4 is really 4/4 counted with triplet 16th notes.
K=kick b=bass note
[Kbb] Most see this and think it is 3/4. However it is NOT 3/4. If you sit and listen to songs that use this (counting the kick cycle like you are supposed to be doing) you will see the cycle is almost always this...
[Kbb Kbb Kbb Kbb] repeat
this is 4/4 time with the 16notes counted in a triplet subdivision (usually counted by musicians by simply saying "TRI pu let, TRI pu let...." with the TRI equaling the quarter note.
Disco Mushroom by Infected Mushroom is a track I often see people claim as either 3/4 or 6/8, but it is neither, it is 4/4 with triplet subdivisions. Count the kicks 1,2,3,4 and you will see that is pure four four, the the parts cycling every 16 kicks (4 measures of 4/4). At about 4:49, Disco Mushroom drops the triplet subdivision and goes to standard 4/4 16th note counting, but the track NEVER leaves 4/4 time at any point.
Now for 3/4 and 6/8 being the same. It is possible for them to be either the same or different. In time signatures the number on the bottom (or right in our case) is the division of note that counts as one whole beat (and that you'd count when counting out the track).
So technically you would count 3/4 as
1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3, etc
6/8 you would count as
1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6, etc
that said it is entire possible to transpose a 3/4 to 6/8 and have them be exactly the same. in 3/4 you kicks are on, obviously 1,2,3, 1,2,3, with each kick equalling a quarter note (the "4" of 3/4). if you transpose this to 6/8, your kicks would only fall on 1,3,5,1,3,5 if you count them as 8th notes. You can also just leave them as quarter notes notation wise and each kick will eat up two beats (12,34,56), but with the percussive manner of kicks that is a little artifical. Either way, math-wise they are the same and they sound the same too, but by strict definition 6/8 and 3/4 can be different depending on how you use them. For all intents an purposes they are the same, but a trained musician would count them differently. Generally speaking, which a piece of music would use when written out as sheet music would simply have to do with which looked cleaner and was easier for the musicians to read. 3/4 music isn't all that rare in pop music, but again, the only instance i can think of it in psy trance off the top of my head is the middle section of Hallucinogen's Snakey Shaker.
Again, this is all first day of the first class of Music Theory 101, but don't take my word on it, buy a music theory book, or look up music theory on the website of any good music college and see for yourself.
Best,
Jikkenteki
New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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Hodi
IsraTrance Full Member
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114
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Posted : Aug 28, 2004 15:23
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also, in 3/4 this "mishkal" (don't know the english name) divides the "teyva" (again.. in music theory i don't know its english) to 3 (3 "revaim") and 6/8 divides the teyva to 2 group of 3 "shminiyot" each.
u can find "Anything U Want" using the search... |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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9
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439
Posted : Aug 28, 2004 21:50
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also , in 3/4 this signature divides to the bar to 3 (3 tri-pels) and 6/8 divides to bar by two groups of 3 eight-pels (hehe ) each ...
now i try to make sense .... in this one
in 3/4 signature bar createn from three parts as most of us said KBB in three colums on which lays each note in sequencer not four colums as some of you said .
in 6/8 signature bar createn from two sub groups of 3/8 of bar so (KBB) (BBB) in six colums and not eight as some of you thought,,,,
Hod Gavriel please check for mistakes if i translate you well !!!! |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
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1660
Posted : Aug 28, 2004 23:33
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Sektor666 I would say u talk rather harsh to ppl, even if u were completely right ( and u r not ), then it could be said nicer, but since I aint the nicest guy either here you go:
01. There is NO CONNECTION whatsoever between 3/4 or 6/8 to TRIPLETS. After we finished with this we will go to the second issue
02. MOST of the tracks all of you referring to as 3/4 count is actually a triplet track which is SAME SAME but different since when u do a triplet track ( like Juno Reactor's - Conga Fury, or BLT and Danni Makov's - Mind The Gap .... Had to do this yo ) eigths ( 1/8 ) are not a part of the game anymore and so are sixteenths, PLUS the count of triplets stays 4 KIKS in one bar whilst in 3/4 count it becomes 3 kiks in one bar. It is a totally different count and a very tribal one.
03. 3/4 and 6/8 is a same damn thing said in different way. THREE QUARTERS and SIX EIGTHS is quite the same thing.. FOR SURE there is no connection what so ever to TEMPO, and Waltz can be written in 6/8 mode either no problem with that what so ever.
Good day to all of u
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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