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1k-15k range too quiet (corrected in mastering..?)
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 27, 2014 17:27:47
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I have this problem in almost all of the tunes that when I have mixed them and they feel like being in a balance I start to check them against commercial tracks.
Because I want them to have similar sound than other tracks, so that they will fit to DJ-sets.
The way I do this is that I have some reference tracks in the same project as my tracks, they are always muted (except when I solo them). I reduce their volume so that their apparent loudness, RMS and/or 50-100hz volume is about the same as my track. Then I listen and look at spectrum analyzer.
Almost all of the reference tracks have much louder between 1k-15k range (especially 5-10k), especially hihats and snares but leads too.
If I try to modify balance of my tune by raising volume of hihats/snares/leads it just doesnt sound right anymore. Hihat starts to be too apparent, etc...
So I was wondering that could it be the analog compression or analog equalization of mastering where they really boost the 1-15k range, and are able to do it in such way that the balance of the tune really doesnt get messed?
I find it very difficult to reproduce such soft hihats that I hear in a lot of commercial tracks. Now I have a NastyHF EQ giving a gentle 10k boost on hihats bus and in addition hihats are mainly processed with Pro-Q.
 
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreaml4nd
http://www.mixcloud.com/aegonox-peter-pan |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 27, 2014 20:27
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One (not very) "secret" to getting a LOUD master is effective use of equal loudness contour EQing (and it's inverse). You are basically slightly boosting the areas in which the human ear is most sensitive, amking it sound much louder without actually increasing the RMS power so much. Depending on how loud something is subjectively in the room, this generally falls at the frequencies you are talking about, 1-5k. Have to be really careful though, as a little goes a long way, and over-boosting here just sounds horrible.
But I wouldn't worry about it too much in mixing, just keep trying to get the best mixes you possibly can. Practice makes perfect. Best mixes I receive are almost always from people with ten years or more mixing experience.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 28, 2014 00:52
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On 2014-05-27 20:27, Babaluma wrote:
One (not very) "secret" to getting a LOUD master is effective use of equal loudness contour EQing (and it's inverse). You are basically slightly boosting the areas in which the human ear is most sensitive, amking it sound much louder without actually increasing the RMS power so much.
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What is the advantage of doing this for the whole mix in mastering stage instead of equalizing those frequencies to be loud in the individual instruments?
I read from somewhere that if you are good enough to mix then master engineer doesnt need to do anything else than maximise levels (compressor and limiter). I wonder how often this happens in reality...
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreaml4nd
http://www.mixcloud.com/aegonox-peter-pan |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 28, 2014 10:33
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : May 30, 2014 05:19
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Hi Golem,
If you're noticing that the level of all the mids and highs of your tracks are quiet compared to that of released tracks, but your own tracks sound ok in your studio, it's quite possible that your monitoring system (ie. interaction between monitors and room) is giving you too much in that area - the mids and highs are too loud in your room. This means you're likely to have the mids and highs quieter in your mix to compensate. I don't know what kinds of monitors you have, or what treatment you have in your room, but if this is the source of your issues, there are two main suggestions to make:
1) Turn down the tweeter (and midrange driver, if you have one) on your monitors. This will encourage you to use more mids and highs in your mix to obtain the same result through your monitors. Most active monitors have a set of switches on the back that will let you do this kind of adjustment, to suit your room.
2) Add mid/high-frequency absorbtion to your studio room. This will reduce the amount of reflected mids and highs that reach your listening position, giving you a more accurate picture of the actual content. The exact composition and arrangement of the treatment needed depends on your room dimensions, construction and contents, but if you don't have any treatment already, a good place to start would be to add some absorbers at the mirror points between the mix position and your monitors on your side walls and ceiling (so the first reflections between monitors and ears are absorbed), and at the 90-degree points on your side walls (ie. noises you make don't bounce back at you). If you do this I'd recommend not bothering with acoustic foam, and going straight for nice 100mm-thick slabs of Rockwool RW3 or equivalent, which will also control the low-mid frequencies, meaning your room won't suddenly sound boxy once you've stopped the highs from bouncing around. As ever though, it's important to take experienced advice specific to your room.
My rule of thumb is "the perfect mixdown needs no EQ in mastering". Doesn't often happen! Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 30, 2014 13:52
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Quote:
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If you're noticing that the level of all the mids and highs of your tracks are quiet compared to that of released tracks, but your own tracks sound ok in your studio, it's quite possible that your monitoring system (ie. interaction between monitors and room) is giving you too much in that area - the mids and highs are too loud in your room.
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aa yeah you are probably right. I have no treatment at all (except for sofa bed in the back wall).
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This means you're likely to have the mids and highs quieter in your mix to compensate. I don't know what kinds of monitors you have,
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Dynaudio BM-6A. Should be good enough, I know that a few famous names are using them  . I noticed that there is HF and LF trim of 0 to -4db behind the monitors. Never touched them, thanks for reminding of their existence!
Do you know if they are just turning level of tweeter/woofer down or if it is an actual EQ with more gentle curve inside the monitors?
Unfortunately room treatment is not (yet) an option for me as I am mixing in my parents house and they try to sell it. When I get a new place for a studio then I will treat it
So Colin if you receive a mix with perfect balance with no need for EQ, but one that is very dry and would need some analog warmth or color, would you still not touch it with an analog EQ?
I mean sometimes I hear of people boosting with one EQ and then cutting the same frequencies with another. I really dont yet have an opinion about that
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreaml4nd
http://www.mixcloud.com/aegonox-peter-pan |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : May 30, 2014 19:10
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BM-6A should be fine indeed. The placement filters are shelving, so probably not simple driver level controls.
I don't have any analog EQ at the moment, although with any luck it won't be too long before that changes. A mixdown whose EQ was fine but that needed additional analog warmth would get that warmth from my analog compressor, like every track that goes through it; it does really very well at that indeed. Over and above that I trust the vision of the producer; if I've been sent a very digital-sounding track to master, I feel I should respect the production choices made by the artist and not add loads of enhancement or reverb or whatever (unless requested, of course), but work to make the material sound as good as possible within its own context. There's no point passing the signal through another noise-inducing piece of analog kit just for the fun of it.
A big problem with this kind of discussion is that no-one (not you, me, Babaluma, or Bob Katz) can adequately describe the extremely subjective phenomenon of 'warmth' in a way that makes it possible to talk technically about it.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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