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146 - 156 BPM?????
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Mark 87
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
226
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 18:11
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138 - 142
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Yellow Warrior
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
898
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 18:46
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145-148(max!) anything above that is just too much for me, Sorry!
 Rather than feeling that you're about to have the rug pulled from under you, let me teach you how to dance on a flying carpet |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 18:54
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On 2006-10-05 18:02, NikC wrote:
Firstly, i want to make it clear this doesn't apply to all the 147bpm+ Dark artists, but it does apply to many:
I have to say, and flame away at me if you want, that the full powah dark 147bpm+ music is mostly an excuse for low production values masked by the fast tempo...
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Dude that applys to all genres, all tempos and all kinds of music!!!
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There's no way to get a clear tone in a deep 16th bassline at these kinds of tempos because filter envelopes just aren't fast enough and make too many harmonics too obvious.
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Who needs a clear tone to enjoy the music?
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Personally, I find that there's no space to hear the actual psychedelic part of the music in between the kicks - the kick and bass themselves aren't psychedelic, they're just the backbone of the music...
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Dude, do some research... You really think the ancient indians had access to Nordleads and Viruses or whatever we have to today?
Nah, they got in trance with drums, and drums only!
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So you want to dance at higher tempos to generic music? - Listen to Hard House...
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Why should we?
i would love to quote the rest of your post but ive got a kid to take care of...
Ciao
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 20:06
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I have to agree with NikC..Its easy to do faster paced music because you can just throw on sounds on top without putting too much thought into it..Try slowing down the tempo a bit & still making it interesting & danceable, you'll find it's much much harder..
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 20:28
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On 2006-10-05 20:06, S-Cube wrote:
I have to agree with NikC..Its easy to do faster paced music because you can just throw on sounds on top without putting too much thought into it..Try slowing down the tempo a bit & still making it interesting & danceable, you'll find it's much much harder..
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Really? if you know how to produce you should be able to do tracks in all tempos...
But maybe its the matter of taste in the end. Specially when it comes to what the artist likes to do?
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chong
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
227
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 20:46
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On 2006-10-05 18:54, Dennis the menace wrote:
Dude, do some research... You really think the ancient indians had access to Nordleads and Viruses or whatever we have to today?
Nah, they got in trance with drums, and drums only!
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dude, do some research, ancient indians knew how to play the drums... they weren't hitting their drums randomly u know |
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chong
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
227
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 20:47
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On 2006-10-05 20:28, Dennis the menace wrote:
Really? if you know how to produce you should be able to do tracks in all tempos...
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waiting to hear the 120-130 bpms productions from the "artists" of your label hihihihih should be very fun |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 21:22
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On 2006-10-05 18:54, Dennis the menace wrote:
Dude that applys to all genres, all tempos and all kinds of music!!!
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No, it doesn't - you don't often hear people making slow music as a disguise for bad production. There's too much space to actually hear the sounds.
Similarly, in drum and bass for example (which also has a high bpm, generally 180-185 now) bad production of certain elements can be disguised because of its speed...
However, returning to the point I was making in reference to basslines, in drum and bass you have long, held basslines - which you don't get in psytrance - when listening to the bass section of a drum and bass track you really can hear if the production is good or not as the kick and bass need to interlace and work dynamically - something you don't get with ludicrously fast psy.
There's no space for tone - which brings me on to my next point:
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Who needs a clear tone to enjoy the music?
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Surely that's a contradiction in terms? Music - i.e. actual 'music' is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary to mean:
"The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds to produce beauty of form, harmony, melody, rhythm, expressive content"
I can see neither harmony, melody or expressive content in many of these tracks...
I can see percussion and sounds in a rhythm, but not music.
Which also neatly brings me onto another point:
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Dude, do some research... You really think the ancient indians had access to Nordleads and Viruses or whatever we have to today?
Nah, they got in trance with drums, and drums only!
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I've done my research, studying and playing classical and world music since I was about 5.
African drumming, for example, is far more intricate than any electronic piece of music can be created at the moment.
For one, I've never heard a truly polyrhythmic psytrance track, have you?
12/8, 3/4, 7/8 all in the same piece of music for example. (and that's not even talking about the different percussion instruments and the infinitely varying ways in which a percussion instrument such as an african drum can be hit)
All I hear in psy is the most used western time signature: 4/4
With an identical pitchbent kick on each beat, and identical (or almost identical) sounds on every 16th division in between.
That, for me is not trance inducing - for me it needs more on top rather than a sprinkling of stereotypical 'psy' sounds and surely that in itself is the point of synthetic music etc. - breaking away from limitations of acoustic instruments to create your very own timbres (i.e. shapes of sound)
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i would love to quote the rest of your post but ive got a kid to take care of...
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It seems to me that you took my post to be a deliberate post towards you. As said, I have respect for many dark artists who are also good producers and who make music I like.
I also however said that I believe there are alot of crap tracks using the "dark and fast" connotations to make up for what they lack musically and intellectually.
But as said, I'm not directly insulting either you or your label... so please don't take my comments as such. I'm also not saying it's wrong to like this kind of 'music' - I just expressed my opinions on it. www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 22:19
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On 2006-10-05 20:47, chong wrote:
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On 2006-10-05 20:28, Dennis the menace wrote:
Really? if you know how to produce you should be able to do tracks in all tempos...
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waiting to hear the 120-130 bpms productions from the "artists" of your label hihihihih should be very fun
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Tranqualizetrance does not interest me in any way, and i dont think the artists of my label are interested in it either.. So keep on waiting dude, but dont masturbate yourself sleepless over this issue.
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 22:27
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On 2006-10-05 21:22, NikC wrote:
It seems to me that you took my post to be a deliberate post towards you.
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I didnt, i just wanted to kill some time 
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As said, I have respect for many dark artists who are also good producers and who make music I like.
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Bravo, so do i
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I also however said that I believe there are alot of crap tracks using the "dark and fast" connotations to make up for what they lack musically and intellectually.
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For sure there is, but theres also alot of crappy full-on, progressive whatsoever..
So its not only "dark psy"
There's a jungle of music to choose from.
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But as said, I'm not directly insulting either you or your label... so please don't take my comments as such.
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I didnt... i just love the discussions here
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I'm also not saying it's wrong to like this kind of 'music' - I just expressed my opinions on it.
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Respect... And so did i
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-=dj fAkE=-
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
77
Posted : Oct 5, 2006 23:26
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I think is a matter of taste for those who produce it, mix it, dance it, etc...
and as dennis said:
"the scene is big enough for the entire bpm scale. "
so go and listen whatever you like, here we are some who loves the speeeeeeeeeeeeeed 
btw I can't even imagine the devils mind artists producing in "slow-motion" hahahahahaha
peace  |
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fromem_ory
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
7
Posted : Oct 6, 2006 00:53
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i'd say, in my educated opinion, that dark/night psy is -generally- of a lower production quality than other types of trance. yes it gives it a dirty sound, which is the intended effect i suppose.
as a general rule, the best sound producers in trance don't lie in the hardpsy/dark/night scene. and that says nothing about its 'psychedelic merit', i think this music can have an equal 'trippy' factor, though it really doesnt do it for me.
coming from the sound-production standpoint, there's little debate that night-time producers just dont pull off as good mixes as slightly slower trance, partly because at that speed you -cant-. like Nik C said, it's near impossible to get much tone into your bassline at speeds exceeding 148+, due to the restrictions of bassline envelopes, plus in the interest of not having your kick overlapping your bassline. and i love bass.
personally, i like clean trance written with high psychedelic content and beautifully-produced sounds. it just makes the listening experience more pleasureable. i find night-time trance to be dirty and disjointed siliness which is generally a sucession of LFO'd squeaks and cheesy samples from horror films. other genres of music played at the same speed, i.e. drum n bass and IDM are much more fun. i'm more of a daytime groover than a dirty night stomper.
so its horses for courses really, but there are undeniable facts when it comes to sound production.
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fromem_ory
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
7
Posted : Oct 6, 2006 00:56
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on the other hand, what would the neanderthalic forefathers of music have to say if they knew that thousands of years into the future we'd be arguing about how many beats certain music has per sixty seconds  |
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illusions
Erebus
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
626
Posted : Oct 6, 2006 07:42
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hmm .. who are the best psy producers in the world, and what genres do they work in ?
arguing over which psy genre is more psychedelic is just a waste of time, to each his own. halloween trance and the rest of its family are usually not produced as well as other genres in psy, and producers get away with it. noise and grime are aspects of this type of 'music' that actually seem to be required.
but on the flipside, some of the bigger dark trance acts (kindzadza and osom come to mind), do manage that dirt/grime with pretty good production, and a decent dose of creativity. strange that the smaller acts don't bother with that, but are just too focused on making as many tracks as possible, in the least amount of time, with the biggest noise factor and the scariest movie samples.
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phobium
Phobium
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
718
Posted : Oct 6, 2006 08:55
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First I would like to quote Pavel :
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On 2006-06-23 20:31, Pavel wrote:
It's not about the BPM's. Saying that todays Psy sucks because of the high BPM is like criticizing a painter for using too much color.
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And this one to the ones of you who think that 148+ is a new invention made after the year 2000 :
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On 2006-07-28 16:54, basilisk wrote:
Sandman - Natural Born Killer - 152 BPM
Doof - Weird Karma - 152 BPM
Reflecta - Creatures - 153 BPM
Pleiadians - Pleiadians - 154 BPM
O.O.O.D. - Silence - 154 BPM
Eat Static - Hybrid (TIP Remix) - 155 BPM
Hallucinogen - Space Pussy - 156 BPM
The Infinity Project - Overwind - 156 BPM
Eternal Basement - Nerv - 160 BPM
Power Source - Everest - 160 BPM
Some early trance songs were quite fast
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I would also like to add Boris Blenn - Portament to that list. It's 160 bpm and released in 1995.
Perhaps you didn't notice this when your cd players and mixers didn't show bpm and you didn't have progs on your pc to give you the bpm?
So people, stop focusing on the bpm and start focusing on the music. The bpm doesn't say much about a track.
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www.phobium.net
http://phobium.bandcamp.com/
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