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11 pages on how it become shit ,now what would you innovate?
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
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3394
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 21:26
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^ there is a name for that, its called dubstep
trance is trance.
no one here is inventing the wheel. make music with vibe and from the heart and without comparing yourself to other producers and no need for the endless search for the next gimmick. keep it pure and at the same time yours.
 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 21:30
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 21:32
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but it is nothing new, its dubstep concept.
so we take trance, we make it in 5/4 groove, in 432hz, with bassline melody, with this, with that, move this, flip that, switch this, do that... is it still trance music?
the trick is to make TRANCE, and sound fresh WITHOUT gimmicks. the whole search for gimmicks led the genre to boxes and staple sounds in the first place.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
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406
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:21
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Lolol.
Your own and everybody production route is "move this,move that,flip this,switch this". And then you get something."Vibe" as you say it comes from what you feel when you hear the track,which is made not by magic but by working something out into coherent piece .
I don't get what you mean by gimmick??So 20 years ago some guy came and said "ok I try 4/4 beat with rolling bass".This is gimmick as you say it.Most of the art is made that way-someone finds something new ,and then everybody copy it and then it turns to gimmick after some time.Till someone else comes and changes ,and then again people copy from him .So lets not invent nothing new.
Music is technical expertise which in the end makes you feel something.When the technical expertise comes to stagnation,you change the building blocks-and this is purely technical work.
At one point you say "make trance",and then you say "make it sound fresh".First half of sentence is puting something into box,and then you say "so it will be fresh" .How can someone be fresh if you decide that new building blocks are "gimmicks"??
So what is not gimmick?
If you define that "vibe"is the soul of music,then structure is its body.When you go to the gym you do not change the soul.You can happily keep the vibe,while making different techniques to cover that vibe.And today technical body of psy ,technically speaking,using very small fragment of musical language.
Where you draw the lines ? What is not gimmick? 4/4 is sacred?Rolling bassline is sacred?There is some sacred bible that defined what is trance? And now that we talk about changing some building blocks so it will sound fresh again,this is somehow gimmick.
Thats really weird point of view.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
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jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:30
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On 2013-07-02 21:05, faxinadu wrote:
with all due respect, the levels of bullshit on this forum are reaching record levels.
so if you write in 423hz your music will be better?
just make good music and stfu  <3
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Also this.Ok,you right,I'l go make music.Then I'l make awesome dinner.Then I'm out to build awesome spaceship.
Yea...To make good dinner you need to know technically how to combine ingridients. Or perhaps this is bullshit and all one need is "just to make gormet meal and stfu"???
Come on.
P.S: 432 Hz is tuning mode for each note.That is different way of music (not sure what you thought this is) and just as valid as what your DAW inhibits you.
Music is not made of "vibes".It is made of ratios,frequencies,harmonic series,rythmical patterns which your brain recognises and enjoyes it.No one writes music in vibes.Sorry if this all seems gimmic to you,I am really interested how TECHNICALLY improve psychedelic music while make it work in similar way. From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:38
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Xsze
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
657
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:50
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Faxi said actually what I wrote in the beginning, trance is defined genre and don't go mental gimmicking "that" sound and it's enough, look at this forum, whole mother of thread is about gimmicks and most of the people are interested in gimmicks, how they did that, what they used, how to come close and all that, it's obvious, long story short you are not supposed to invent new genre, just don't gimmick already done overused things.
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:55
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 22:56
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On 2013-07-03 04:50, OzMike wrote:
Polyrhythms are great if done properly. It's the reason I still listen to heavy metal. Messhugah make amazing complex music that is wonderful to trance out to. The only metal band I still actively listen to.
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Anything is great when done properly. That's what 'done properly' means!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 23:33
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Quote:
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On 2013-07-03 22:30, jekvan wrote:
P.S: 432 Hz is tuning mode for each note.That is different way of music (not sure what you thought this is) and just as valid as what your DAW inhibits you.
Music is not made of "vibes".It is made of ratios,frequencies,harmonic series,rythmical patterns which your brain recognises and enjoyes it.No one writes music in vibes.Sorry if this all seems gimmic to you,I am really interested how TECHNICALLY improve psychedelic music while make it work in similar way.
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We're gonna disagree on fundamental (hah) value of transposing an entire track up or down a few Hz - by less than 1%. TECHNICALLY, you will not improve your music one bit, or make it more 'psychedelic' by doing this. The ratios, harmonic series, rhythms, etc in a track are not affected one bit by subtracting 4Hz from the frequencies of each pitched sound, and while root pitch does have an effect on the 'vibe' (imagine your favourite piano piece played four octaves lower than normal), a variation as subtle is too low to have any real psychological effect whatsoever - at least, none more than you'd get by taking an A=440 track and pitching it down by 0.8%. Additionall, consider when tracks are used in a DJ set; they'll be repitched all over the place anyway, by amounts that far overwhelm the dropped pitch. It's possible that you as the creator might feel a difference, but honestly, that will most likely be because you expect to feel one; it won't be because you're writing your track with A=432Hz.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 23:52
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On 2013-07-03 19:11, jekvan wrote:
Quote:
| What about getting away from the psy bass thing? Someone should put out a contest for that. I can't because I can't put no money on that XD
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Tricky one,this is the most driving part of the track.You can sustain entire croud by just kick and bass.
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this is part of the problem. as long as the beat is kbbb the majority of the crowd will be satisfied. kbbb + cheesy vocals = psytrance, kbbb + minimal-techno percussion = psytrance. it has become the defining feature and nothing else seems to matter. if an entire crown can be sustained by just kick and bass, then why should a producer spend a lot of time on the rest? i'm not saying that we shouldn't - quite to the contrary - but i guess that's what a lot of producers are thinking.
i have on multiple occasions witnessed sets of old masters playing their (then) genre defining tracks and the comments from people were along the lines of "wtf is this, that's not even goa [goa is the umbrella term for anything psytrance over here]" (obviously it can't be if there is no kbbb :rolleyes: ) or "this music is confusing, i don't like it" or even (i kid you not) "this is way too deep. i need simple music to dance to".
i guess i have no new ideas to contribute, only: tell a story with your music, and don't focus mainly on the kick and bass. after all, a human is more than just a heart, just as good trance has always been about more than just the beat. |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Jul 3, 2013 23:54
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^^
+1
well said. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 4, 2013 00:20
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Honestly I think the biggest reason these days to make a track in 432 is to garner additional views/listens from the people who are obsessed with 432 being an important musical factor. (note - I don't consider this a good reason to make a track in 432 hehe)
I made a track with the instruments tuned to 432 hz...I noticed absolutely no difference at all in terms of the vibe/feel/etc compared to my 440 projects. However, that track is one of my most listened to on my soundcloud.
It would probably be different if my productions had a lot of harmony in them as I can definitely hear the difference between 432 chords and 440 chords in terms of the 'beating' in them...but yeah my harmony is pretty shit at the moment.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
406
Posted : Jul 4, 2013 00:34
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Quote:
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On 2013-07-03 23:33, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-07-03 22:30, jekvan wrote:
P.S: 432 Hz is tuning mode for each note.That is different way of music (not sure what you thought this is) and just as valid as what your DAW inhibits you.
Music is not made of "vibes".It is made of ratios,frequencies,harmonic series,rythmical patterns which your brain recognises and enjoyes it.No one writes music in vibes.Sorry if this all seems gimmic to you,I am really interested how TECHNICALLY improve psychedelic music while make it work in similar way.
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We're gonna disagree on fundamental (hah) value of transposing an entire track up or down a few Hz - by less than 1%. TECHNICALLY, you will not improve your music one bit, or make it more 'psychedelic' by doing this. The ratios, harmonic series, rhythms, etc in a track are not affected one bit by subtracting 4Hz from the frequencies of each pitched sound, and while root pitch does have an effect on the 'vibe' (imagine your favourite piano piece played four octaves lower than normal), a variation as subtle is too low to have any real psychological effect whatsoever - at least, none more than you'd get by taking an A=440 track and pitching it down by 0.8%. Additionall, consider when tracks are used in a DJ set; they'll be repitched all over the place anyway, by amounts that far overwhelm the dropped pitch. It's possible that you as the creator might feel a difference, but honestly, that will most likely be because you expect to feel one; it won't be because you're writing your track with A=432Hz.
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No no no no,it's not droping the entire track by 8 Hz,that would be dumb as fuck  . Its a tuning method.Its called Pythagorian tuning.
Ok : Today,in our western tuning,the difference between each semitone is 12 root of 2 (or 100 cents in other words).
Why the twelve root of 2?That way,as you pass 12 cemitones up from some note,you will get that same note (cause 12*12root(2)=2) ,only octave higher=2 times the frequency. You can play same melody in piano in different octaves.
Its called equal temperament.
This way,each octave have exactly the same notes.But you pay = you don't have exact harmonies when you play chords that way.It is kinda close,but not exactly perfect . Not pure ratios.Close enough.
Pythagoras was really into ratios,and he found out that some sounds sound really good together,if their frequencies have whole number ratios,like 3:2 for example.
So ,Pythagorian tuning instruments had notes that had 3:2 ratio,instead of that root of 2 we use today.
For example,if his A1 was 432 hz (that is the reason of the name of that tuning method,not tuning down everything-and 432 Hz is a good number that divides both by 2,3,6,12,24,18,and as you allready gathered ,its all about the intervals),next note would be at : 432*3/2=648 Hz.Next note is 648*3/2=972Hz.And so on.
The beauty of this again,was that some chords was really pure and intimite-you can get more "consonant" state .And not the same chords you hear in today music.
The bad thing is,same sound octave higher,was not really same sound-A2 frequency for example was not twice as higher as A1.
So ,if you have a melody that you play in some octave and say "well,hey,maybe I will move it one octave higher"-this will not work.Octave higher is not really the same sounds.
But think of it-no one said that A has to be 440 Hz.And no one said that next note is root(2,12) bigger.Think of the entire world of notes that hides between those,and the scale people miss because they get preassigned frequency values to each note.
As musical instruments began having octaves,there was need for tuning that each octave have the same frequencies,only multiplied.So our modern temperament was born - its a middle ground between having REAL harmony,and the need to play same melodies in different octaves.
What I'm getting at,is not juxtaposing track by 8 Hz,it is that there is entire world of sounds between E and F,and you can make really weird and good melodies with that.
Technically : In ableton for example,in operator you have frequency mode.Type frequency in,and you get sound of that frequency.Make yourself a list of frequencies you want to sample,sample them,make melodies,and walla-you have melodies that have nothing to do with piano roll of your DAW.
Edit: Oh,I ust made a google search and saw a lot of new age stuff with 432 Hz,I guess thats why people here had a weird vibe for it.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 4, 2013 02:01
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