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100% legal gatherings
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MR VOMERS
Datavore
Started Topics :
36
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2094
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 17:15
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On 2011-06-30 14:56, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2011-06-30 12:39, DETOX wrote:
There is no event anywhere in the globe that is 100% legal
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Sorry Mike but that's just untrue.
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Yes...we need NONE of these permits you speak of, for gatherings on the private 200 acre piece of land we use for our festivals.
Our food vendors get inspected by food inspector for the state, but that's it 
  WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 18:28
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The government decides what is legal and can change their mind if it suits them, so you may find out that your "100% legal" party is not as legal as you thought.
For example in the US all you need to get busted is for the govt to show that you knew drug use was happening and didn't do "enough" to stop it, which is so up to interpretation that it's impossible to know if you're doing "enough".
Of course punk/metal concerts and pop shows pretty much never have this law enforced on them, just raves and occasionally jam band fests. |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 18:32
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On 2011-06-30 18:28, Shiranui wrote:
The government decides what is legal and can change their mind if it suits them, so you may find out that your "100% legal" party is not as legal as you thought.
For example in the US all you need to get busted is for the govt to show that you knew drug use was happening and didn't do "enough" to stop it, which is so up to interpretation that it's impossible to know if you're doing "enough".
Of course punk/metal concerts and pop shows pretty much never have this law enforced on them, just raves and occasionally jam band fests.
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In those cases, it's not the event itself that is illegal but people's behaviour at it.
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OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
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IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
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1707
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 18:42
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On 2011-06-30 18:32, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2011-06-30 18:28, Shiranui wrote:
The government decides what is legal and can change their mind if it suits them, so you may find out that your "100% legal" party is not as legal as you thought.
For example in the US all you need to get busted is for the govt to show that you knew drug use was happening and didn't do "enough" to stop it, which is so up to interpretation that it's impossible to know if you're doing "enough".
Of course punk/metal concerts and pop shows pretty much never have this law enforced on them, just raves and occasionally jam band fests.
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In those cases, it's not the event itself that is illegal but people's behaviour at it.
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In fact not. Consuming isn't illegal, providing the space to do so can be.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 18:45
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On 2011-06-30 14:56, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2011-06-30 12:39, DETOX wrote:
There is no event anywhere in the globe that is 100% legal
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Sorry Mike but that's just untrue.
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Dear Colin because i happen to spend A LOT of time on the subject i can assure you that my statement is true for reasons which i didnt want to mention on my original post but for the sake of conversation i will mention now.
In case an event has all the permits that i mentioned on my original post there are some issues for which you cant get a permit.
I will mention just one of them because i dont want to mention the rest in public.
A)Like we all know inside psy trance events there is drug consumption by various people. In some countries this is not a major offense and in some countries (Netherlands and maybe UK too?) the possession of drugs for personal use is not an offense at all up to a certain quantity. In most countries though this is a major offense including my country Greece.
Lets skip this part though because this is not the problem at the moment.
When and If a party gets busted like we all know people throw their drugs on the floor,then the police gathers all this stuff in a big box and the promoters are being accused for the following issues.
a) Promotion of the drug culture (yes its a small tiny law that exists in every european country member of the union and for which i have been accused when one of my events got busted in 2003).
b) Availability of space for the consumption of drugs (implying that the promoter knew before hand that people would consume drugs but proceeded with renting a party area anyway to host a party).
c) And if the authorities are bad enough you can be accused for drug trafficing.
You cant get a permit for all these plus you cant search everyone whether he has drugs on him or not.
P.S CINDERVOMIT you need a lot of permits for your events in your private property (especially if you charge an admission) but you just dont bother with them,i hope that you will never have to bother with them.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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a3k
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
269
Posts :
7826
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 19:15
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in Portugal the notion i have is that more to the south and interior of the country, permits are way easier to obtain.(i am currently woking on a permits which are turning very hard to obtain)
in the north, at least where i live the permits are really hard to obtain - since the permits are usually obtained from authorization of politics, and most of them have prejudicy to 24 hours party..well..pretty hard to get.
but i also must say, there are a lot of parties here in Portugal every weekend so i guess they all have permits.. 
... |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 23:01
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P.S CINDERVOMIT you need a lot of permits for your events in your private property (especially if you charge an admission) but you just dont bother with them,i hope that you will never have to bother with them.
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That is only true if you charge an admission, if you charge a donation, you get away a lot easier, and as far as I know don't need any permits to do a party on your own land, as long as there are no noise complaints, you should be fine. Since it would be a private event, you could deny entry to anyone, even police, at least in the states.
If it was not a private event, food inspectors would indeed be a good idea, but I don't think you need any other permits for a party on private land in the USA
On another note, @ the beach in Hawai'i ( all free parties, without concession stands, just gatherings of people)they always got us with the noise complaint, not that there necessarily were any, for when I asked the cops where the noise complaint came from, which they have to tell you if the claim has any validity, meaning if they actually come and enforce a noise complaint, they said "we cannot give you any name or tell you where it came from, but if you don't get everybody out here, we will start towing cars (legally parked) and then we will take people."
Ah, the land of the free...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
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http://upavas.com
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 23:31
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Detox, all the points you made there are to do with the behaviour of people at these events, and the behaviour of the organisers, not the legality of the event itself. If you have all the necessary permissions and licenses etc. to run an event at a particular location then your event is legal, by definition. What goes on there, and how many people complain, and whether or not it gets shut down because of breaches of the law is down to the subsequent actions of the people attending and organising it. It's not unknown for police to illegally close down an event which is otherwise legally organised; this does not reflect on the legal status of the event itself.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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goaren
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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1151
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 23:38
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well... these are rare in israel, but there are some, and they are filled with cops trying to fill bust quotas cuz its pretty damn easy in our scene
most of the time you just have to pay the cops the right price, get an ambulance and security and youre set, but then again you can always get a cop who didnt get a piece of the pie and hell shut the party down  thats pretty much the reason why 90% of the parties in israel are at the south where we have the desert and far enough from civilization |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 30, 2011 23:49
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Upavas even in private property with no admission you need licenses to hold an event that will hold lets say 100 people or more. We are not talking about private small parties of ten people here. I once organised an event in my house in Long Island New York for 250 people (not trance party but still loud music and by the way my house has a huge garden with an outside pool so dont think that i put all these people inside the house) and i even had to receive the confirmation of the fire department and the municipality in order to be as legal as possible. Also i contacted the traffic police for possible parking problems in the neighborhood and they send two officers to help me out which was great plus they joined the party heh.
Colin being legal with the taxation office and the health department or the ministry of culture doesnt have to do anything with the behaviour of either the people or the organisers. And i am not sure you can be ok with these authorities in the first place because sometimes they ask ridiculus things. Tiesto played in Athens in 2009 and i was part of the production and because the event was open air and lasers were going to be used the authorities asked us to get a written permission from the Athens International Airport that the lasers wont confuse the airplanes or the traffic tower,guess what nobody wanted to sign that paper because noone WANTED TO BE RESPONSIBLE in case something happened so we never used those lasers. Go figure out....
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 1, 2011 00:03
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On 2011-06-30 23:49, DETOX wrote:
Colin being legal with the taxation office and the health department or the ministry of culture doesnt have to do anything with the behaviour of either the people or the organisers.
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I agree. Therefore the legality of the actual event itself is independant of what people do once they're there. If they then break laws and get themselves busted and the party closed, that's nothing to do with the fact that the party was legal before they did those things.
Just to check - the post of yours I replied to said "there are no legal parties in the world". Did you mean that specifically, or were you just talking about Greece? Because I have friends who make succesful outdoor events in the UK that are indeed 100% legal according to the law of the land. They are careful, cautious people who have no interest in risking themselves or their clean criminal records and would not do what they do if they weren't 100% sure of the reality of the situations they put themselves in. You are very knowledgeable about many things but I suggest you be very careful with your sweeping statements because there are people out there who know more about some things than you do, and they're doing very well thankyou very much
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jul 1, 2011 00:10
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I organized events at private properties in Hawaii where people in the hundreds attended, we had no permissions, the place however did have to have a certain code regarding fire hazard, but we did not need to get that, I guess it is different from state to state..., cops tried to enter and were refused... and that was that. A big thing was to call the entry fee donation, which somehow seemed to change everything...
It has been a dream of mine to host a party in Kualoa Ranch, O'ahu, but Hawaii is just too small for such a thing, maybe on the big Island, but that would not be my first choice... I have found a beautiful Gem of an Island with beaches that melt even the hearts of true morons and nature so beautiful it almost makes you cry..., well off the beaten path, a piece of forgotten and amazing Caribbean...maybe one day I will make a party there, and that would indeed be a big one... just wish me good luck in the lottery...
or have someone actually buy my music 
The funny thing, I might likely be able to pull off a permit on this island... but alone the bribes I would have to pay...even if the event was legal... oh boy ...
aiaman vibration mon !
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
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1707
Posted : Jul 1, 2011 07:20
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On 2011-07-01 00:10, Upavas wrote:
I organized events at private properties in Hawaii where people in the hundreds attended, we had no permissions, the place however did have to have a certain code regarding fire hazard, but we did not need to get that, I guess it is different from state to state..., cops tried to enter and were refused... and that was that. A big thing was to call the entry fee donation, which somehow seemed to change everything...
It has been a dream of mine to host a party in Kualoa Ranch, O'ahu, but Hawaii is just too small for such a thing, maybe on the big Island, but that would not be my first choice... I have found a beautiful Gem of an Island with beaches that melt even the hearts of true morons and nature so beautiful it almost makes you cry..., well off the beaten path, a piece of forgotten and amazing Caribbean...maybe one day I will make a party there, and that would indeed be a big one... just wish me good luck in the lottery...
or have someone actually buy my music
The funny thing, I might likely be able to pull off a permit on this island... but alone the bribes I would have to pay...even if the event was legal... oh boy ...
aiaman vibration mon !
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if you do it please let us know.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jul 1, 2011 07:27
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goaren
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jul 2, 2011 08:43
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well... these are rare in israel, but there are some, and they are filled with cops trying to fill bust quotas cuz its pretty damn easy in our scene
most of the time you just have to pay the cops the right price, get an ambulance and security and youre set, but then again you can always get a cop who didnt get a piece of the pie and hell shut the party down thats pretty much the reason why 90% of the parties in israel are at the south where we have the desert and far enough from civilization |
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