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0 dB Kick, pros and cons.
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:57
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That's good advice frambonas....I go for -10dBfs on individual tracks, but hey whats 1dB between friends? 
Another point to remember is that something that clipped during recording won't show as an over on playback.
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:58
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On 2009-02-03 12:56, Fragletrollet wrote:
This whole things sounds like one big con ;p
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Care to elaborate?
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 13:05
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 13:11
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I like to think of it as water in the room. If you fill it up say 2 thirds you will have room for some waves. You can have bigger waves than if you filled the room to say 4/5's. Bigger waves = more dynamics.
Fill the room to the top and you drown. |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 13:23
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pilgrim
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 13:28
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nice picture |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 14:18
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On 2008-12-25 19:26:08, Partzi Floch wrote:
I've heard lately of some well known psy artist who starts projects with kick at 0 db.
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I'd like to know who that well known psy artist is and a link to their music.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Sp4Rx
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 15:20
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-03 12:57, ~d2~ wrote:
That's good advice frambonas....I go for -10dBfs on individual tracks
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When you say -10dbfs, do you mean -10db on the master of individual mixed down audio tracks, or -10db on the master track, or -10db in total including the sequencer volume as well in combination? I'm sorry if this sounds odd to you, but I'm still learning. Much appreciated. |
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gutter
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 15:43
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he means that every track will peak till -10db on their own faders, not the master output, the master stays untouched, so does the midi faders --#use faders only on audio tracks#--(and fx tracks too)
To understand it better, start a new track and lower your kick from about -9db or -12db.
Then start to build your track and mix your sounds according to that kicks volume. Dont use meters from now on too much, try to fit the sounds in there as better as you can and you will finally see that youll have more depth and headroom in your mix and more room for any other dynamic processing,,a track is not needed to peak till -10db, it can peak at -9 or -15 according to need, you might really want some instant transients to pass others sounds, for example the snare.
Also always take care to not clip inside the plugins, if you use an equalizer for a sound, for example kick, and you see that it clips (the volume turns red) on the plugin output , you can always turn down its output volume, so that this will not clip and boost from the tracks fader to gain the volume loss of the previous step
The example with the glasses of water is the best for understand this balance.
Each time you use another plugin in the chain, is like having an empty glass where you spill water from the previous glass (plugin- EQ-compressor-fx in that case) you must remain,, if not the equal amount of water in the glasses (it will never be equal anyway ), you must remain the water inside the glasses without spilling out of it. hope it helps
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 16:06
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As gutter has explained.
The good thing with leaving this headroom is that it will then be quite hard to clip inside a plugin. EQ boosts can usually be guilty of this. But with around 10dB headroom you should be safe.
Also once you have finished your mix and are ready to bounce to your stem(s) check that you don't peak over -3dBfs on the master fader. IT IS POSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY CLIP A SIGNAL IN A DAW EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HIT 0dBfs ON THE METER. Leave your cushion play it safe. There is no need to worry about 3dB signal to noise in either 16bit or 24bit resolution. I work in 24bit and leave 6dB, Leaves headroom for the mastering processes. |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 17:06
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-03 16:06, ~d2~ wrote:
As gutter has explained.
The good thing with leaving this headroom is that it will then be quite hard to clip inside a plugin. EQ boosts can usually be guilty of this. But with around 10dB headroom you should be safe.
Also once you have finished your mix and are ready to bounce to your stem(s) check that you don't peak over -3dBfs on the master fader. IT IS POSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY CLIP A SIGNAL IN A DAW EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HIT 0dBfs ON THE METER. Leave your cushion play it safe. There is no need to worry about 3dB signal to noise in either 16bit or 24bit resolution. I work in 24bit and leave 6dB, Leaves headroom for the mastering processes.
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What do you mean? I thought that in the digital domain sound will only clip at 0 db when hitting the soundcards converters?
http://www.myspace.com/fragletrollet
http://www.myspace.com/unknowncausesound
http://www.fragletrollet.com/ |
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 18:05
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Apparently it can depend on the meter design. When recording from the analogue domain into digital the meters on the hardware may not be the best designed and you could be clipping with out registering. Some say that even the meters in some DAWS are not perfect for the registering of some overs. And then there's the actual conversion process to analogue for playback. Apparently in the conversion process low-pass filtering can cause occasional peaks between the samples that will cause distortion and the analogue output stages don't have the headroom to handle it.
Hence its good to play it safe and leave that cushion. Let the mastering engineer deal with getting the track up as close to 0dBfs. There is just no need to risk it with the dynamic range afforded to you by 24 bit, even 16 bit. |
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~d2~
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 18:12
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Sp4Rx
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 19:22
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Thank you very much for explaining. |
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Feb 3, 2009 19:34
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On 2009-02-03 19:22, Sp4Rx wrote:
Thank you very much for explaining.
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Well I am trying....lol
That's why I post the links.They may be more helpful. |
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