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0 dB Kick, pros and cons.
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
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3394
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 17:38
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Some producers do advocate to ensure that no other sounds is higher in amplitude than the kick...personally I think that makes the kick a bit too dominant and requires that all sounds in the mix have very contained dynamics which results in a boring sound.
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+1
 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 18:02
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On 2008-12-27 15:49, pipe&slippers wrote:
What monno said. I'll just add Audioslave's LP to Metallica's for an example of multimillion dollar idiots perceiving louder=better.
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yes it s all about loudness ,you have to do compromise these days ... but still some of the best pystrance realesed is very loud , and distort less than badly produced psytrance that is not loud at all sometimes,they just go over the limit and the music is ruined |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 18:29
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The most important thing is to maintain clarity and punch. Stupidly limited mixes are not punchy at all, they just sound like a brick wall. One of the reasons a lot of mixes are bass light, is for people to achieve an even higher RMS level before limiter artifacts are way too obvious.
I mean even the idea of starting to mix a tune and using a kick track channel that peaks at 0dB as a reference, is way too limiting. Ok, supposing no other individual channel is going to have a higher peak level than the kick, mixing is all about adding sounds together. What do you think is going to happen when other sounds fall on top of the kick? You'd have to sidechain the crap out of everything, or simply put a massive obstacle in front of you, when you are arranging and simply want to put that accent note that falls on the beat.
Mastering houses will get things loud enough.
The producer's/artist's main concern, is the actual balance of the mix.
Imho always.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Sonica
IsraTrance Junior Member
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43
Posts :
396
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 22:19
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wouldnt the kick be limited to go over 0db anyways? or am i missin the point? |
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gutter
Inactive User
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54
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3018
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 22:49
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maybe the kick is limited due to a limiter but still a loud mix will be missing punch, it is much preferred the sounds to jump out of the track than being stable "in your face" all the time, you cannot breathe and is annoying .. i think that the kick is to be used more like a "effect" ,to come out from the mix snappy and groovy and create a nice rolling among with all elements of the mix and the techniques used. you cannot trace, mix and create that groove when you are clipping imho,, the best is to mix in low db inside the sequencer and push your monitors up also not use digital meters.. and indeed the lack of bass in many mixes is due to much compression/limiting and why not a result of a loud mix.. still adore to listen to logic bomb mixes with soooo much big low fat frequencies and sub sounds, state of the art trance mixing and music imo & taste 
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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44
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538
Posted : Dec 27, 2008 23:00
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Great thread. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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3709
Posted : Dec 28, 2008 01:36
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On 2008-12-27 22:49, gutter wrote:
maybe the kick is limited due to a limiter but still a loud mix will be missing punch, it is much preferred the sounds to jump out of the track than being stable "in your face" all the time, you cannot breathe and is annoying .. i think that the kick is to be used more like a "effect" ,to come out from the mix snappy and groovy and create a nice rolling among with all elements of the mix and the techniques used. you cannot trace, mix and create that groove when you are clipping imho,, the best is to mix in low db inside the sequencer and push your monitors up also not use digital meters.. and indeed the lack of bass in many mixes is due to much compression/limiting and why not a result of a loud mix.. still adore to listen to logic bomb mixes with soooo much big low fat frequencies and sub sounds, state of the art trance mixing and music imo & taste
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Totaly agree!!!!!
And Logic Bomb is great example 
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 1, 2009 12:49
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Calibrated monitoring has to be the way forward. K-14 would work nicely for Psy. |
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Soundmagus
IsraTrance Full Member
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67
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633
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 11:14
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I normally create my kicks with Adobe Auditon and have the level set to 0db.
Import to sampler
Mix Kick accordingly.
I use my ears, not the meters.
I always have my master output set to -3db also.
Check out my site for Video tutorials and other tips & Tricks
http://www.music-production-videos.com |
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gutter
Inactive User
Started Topics :
54
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3018
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 11:57
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I always have my master output set to -3db also.
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the master output of the sequencer? master out should be at 0db itb , & overall volume can be controlled from the soundcard, lowering the master is a mistake imo
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:20
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I track at around -10dBfs (peak) 24bit.
No need to go to 0dB. Most meters wont display all overs so its good to have a cushion and of course headroom for EQ.
At the height of the song I will maybe peak at about +2dB on the K-14/RMS meter with no peaks above -3dBfs. |
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The Andychrist
The Andychrist
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11
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150
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:21
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Lowering the master volume when you are rendering a mixdown is not a bad thing, though ideally it won't be necessary. After all, if your mixdown is clipped, it's useless. If it's too quiet and you want to hear it loud, you can just turn up your amp or, if your amp won't go louder, normalize your track to 0db to hear it loud with full dynamics.
For psytrance, I usually mix my kick at around -8db, bass around -10db or -11, and the rest of the mix obviously changes more dramatically from track to track.
I like to keep my mixdowns around -7db on the master out with no peaks above -3db, but even -3db would be a big one. http://soundcloud.com/the-andychrist
http://unwashedtomato.com |
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~d2~
Inactive User
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7
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751
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:24
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I would avoid normalizing. Leave some headroom for mastering. |
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frambonas
IsraTrance Junior Member
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14
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166
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:46
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I had lessons from some pro people (nothing to do with psytrance) and they adviced to put everything at the start of a project at -9dB, if you work in a digital environment.
Becouse it doe'nt matter how loud you put it, it will stay the same, it's digital.
The only rule there is;
Digital clipping = broken sound (not to recover anymore)
And don't lower your master fader!
Every mixdown you do, you will have to push it aigain, else you loos dB with every mixdown
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
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1748
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 12:56
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